I'm going back to lurking

This is probably the biggest, most influential famale forum online. BoreofWhabylon on the lurkers thread described FWR as a "shining beacon". Because of this I'm determined to stay while I can.

I've posted on the same blogs as you for about 5 years, Mancheese, though not using this name, and I know how much this issue means to you. I imagine that, as an American, any limitation on free speech is anathema. Well, it is to me too, but I'm very English and if I have to work my way round it then I will do.

You do what you want to do. I'll do the same. We're both addressing the same issues and doing so differently is fine. So good luck.

I hate the word 'triggered' but the recent email I got from the mods did EXACTLY just that - having spent my whole life living and dealing with patriarchal arseholes and their ride or die handmaidens then coming here and being condescended too and my opinions deleted is just a power play too fucking far for me.

Ive barely commented here - always lurked, now had 50% of my comments deleted - the most recent pointing out that censorship of facts is the beginnings of fascism and that MN had been infiltrated.

That's it - many academic essays on how censorship ties into totalitarian behaviour, many examples of the current infiltration on MN - but no that apparently breaches new guidelines - you know the ones that talk about freedom of speech?

I like Pratchet and she is right about them being powerful. The fact they are powerful though is precisely because they are men, who are doing exactly what men have been doing to women for millennia, trying to dominate women and roll our rights back. They have done what abusive men always do, and what the late great feminist Mary Daly used to say, they have reversed the truth; they are portraying themselves as victims while they target women. Not naming them for what they are; abusive men, only allows them to get stronger, and the abuse to go unnamed and unrecognised. They need to be named for what they are, that is the fundamental basic tenant of feminism. Since this site no longer allows these men to be named for what they on the feminist section, it is no longer the feminist section. It is now simply just a section where women talk around the problem of male dominance, and men’s latest massive reversal of the truth, without being able to name the agent.

We could all use VPN’s proxies etc, to continue to post, many of us have had to do that on previous lesbian sites when these males first started to invade, but there is no point in pretending that this section is actually a feminist section anymore when it clearly isn’t. A new site needs to be set up, and this should then simply be used as a site to direct women to the new site, this site is no longer fit for purpose in my opinion, so I am not surprised women are leaving it.

Completely understand and respect every woman's decision.

I think this thread yesterday was important:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3290772-Reality-check

OP Pratchet wrote:
It's shit but I think we have to be pragmatic. And disclaimer: the below does not refer to all trans people or all transadvocates.

Imagine how many pairs of TRA eyes are trawling every single post on Mumsnet about trans issues. There are the resources, the legal support and the tech experience there to build a civil case, or find the one post that tips over into breaching IPSO and Ofcom guidelines, that can lead to sanction, compensation or worse for MN... (continues)
And who will they complain to? They will be complaining to people who have had 'trans awareness training' and bodies which have extremely active awareness networks, looking for offensive material. Going back years, through the media, including the BBC and ITV at the highest levels, police, monitoring organisations, government, the civil service, about how vulnerable trans people are, about how oppressed trans people are. What are Mumsnet's chances of coming out the other side and being able to allow this conversation to go on?

We all know this, but it's actually real. It's not theoretical.

Don't do the TRAs' job for them. Please don't jump. Please don't throw yourselves in front of the train. This is David and Goliath, we are amateurs all, new to the field, up against an army of well-prepared professionals. But we can do this."

I don’t blame you mancheese, this site has just frozen me out, so that I cannot log in, no email, no warning nothing! I presume it is because I have said that men cannot become lesbian women, and I am not prepared to pretend that hetereosexual men can ever become lesbian women. And that I do not believe in transgender ideology and that it should be enshrined into law. This site is clearly now about keeping hetereosexual men (who fetishise lesbians) happy and who want to force themselves into female spaces. This site and the feminist section no less has become a site that endorses lesbiphobia and the ‘rights’ of heterosexual men to trample all over females rights. It should be ashamed of itself!

Agree Macareaux. Mancheeze I love you on other sites too, would love you to stay and contribute your unique perspective. I hope you find a way to. Absolutely understand why you feel disheartened by MN recently

It's incomprehensible to think that at least some, if not all, the mods don't get it. You can't read/moderate these threads day in day out and not get it. The only people who don't get it are those with a vested interest in not getting it (AGPs, Owen Jones, MRAs etc) and those who haven't thought about it for more than five minutes.

I love that Anyfucker 's post has now made it sound like we're at at Woodstock. 'Hey man...'!

Hey man stick around

by a voice I mean your voice

Ahh Betty you got me. I concede defeat.

Man whatever you decide, we're here for you in song!

Barrack I totally understand the 'burn out' factor. The bruises are evident.

Whatever happens, this place has lit a fire that I suspect won't burn out even if the original fireplace is quoshed.

For Mancheese
Hearing a voice from Vancouver has been great

It's exhausting pirouetting around the rules, I know.
When you simply want to be able to speak clearly and truthfully in good faith. But facts and truth are prohibited because of legal threats, and hurt feelings, and societal pressure.

We burn out.

I'd love MNHQ to send a messenger pigeon to some posters they trust to let us know if they too are part of la resistance, or whether this is simply a commercial game to them.

The banning of truthful, objective terms and acronyms and pronouns and factual discussion, combined with an 'inclusive' approach to feminist-baiters has me doubting their position sometimes.

Some mods in particular are very fast and loose with the ban hammer and I suspect they itch to give us all the "MN probably not the place for you ".
But then I genuinely sense that other mods are empathetic, entirely understand the risk to women and are navigating as close to the wire as they can.

Ultimately I dunno where this will end up.
I will always be glad of the part they played in keeping the debate going.
And yet peeved that such a huge and powerful woman-based company stayed neutral and left the bruises to be borne by individual gender critical women.

MN could do so much more, if they only located their ovaries of steel...

I see your Bill Withers and I raise you...

m.youtube.com/watch?v=YCYaALgW80c

To thebewilderness I also offer you Bill

Awaits to be told that Bill is actually a bit 'problematic' in the lexicon of SJWs!

Betty pffft! Oh god, that may have driven Man away! Cheeese

How about this one?:

I expect to be banned soon and as a result will return to lurking whether I like it or not.
For those who do not know, mancheeze has a blog.

Man
I am very new still, and I agree you have to do what's right for you. Your absence will be felt. I really like your perspective, your voice, and ability to broaden the conversation to touch on international subjects as well. No matter what happens, I do hope you continue to speak out.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=ikJony6h_tQ

I really hope you stay MAN but I know where you're coming from.

Yeah, in case I wasn't clear - completely understand the frustration, and don't want you to go, but no blame is on you if you do decide to sack it for now

I've loved your posts, Man. I'd also love it if you stayed but completely understand it if you don't.

Aww don't go. Also enjoyed your posts... in some ways though I think if/when we are all finally driven from this board en masse, it may prompt a hell of a lot of IRL conversations and activism. A lot of my energy goes here at the moment and maybe it shouldn't.

I wonder what those who would silence us imagine we will do once we can't speak here?

I've loved your comments too Man. But as always, can understand if it's too hassly to keep posting.

The other option is you can keep posting until you exceed your deletions, and then still lurk (you don't need to log in to read the threads).

This still is the Feminism board on Mumsnet. It is still discussing one of the most pressing issues that womens rights in general faces right now (to all those who go, 'oh, why so many 'trans' threads).

And whilst I'm not going to blow smoke up MNHQ's arse, the board is still here. These discussions are still here. As a business, they could have taken the decision to take down this board as a whole (though that probably wouldn't have played out well!).

I think we are still naming the oppression, be it in a slightly mangled way. And there are so many others reading, as evidenced by the lurkers thread today.

What impressed me with that thread is so many, like I did, are saying how much they looked at the issue, not just reading this board as a result, but reading all perspectives, and still coming to the conclusions that many of us hold on here.

It's a powerful resource and hub. That's why there are some people who desparately want you, me and everyone else here to give up and go away.

Whatever you decide, I hope I bump into your insights in some other medium.

I'm going nowhere
Fuck em
Don't go - I like your comments