WPUK Brighton Meeting: Turning the Tide

I don't think WPUK owe you any answers to your questions, after the event, daim - you attended the meeting - you could have asked them there.

It's not WPUK's fault you lost your bottle. The WPUK speakers risk a lot to speak there - Kathleen Stock is being targeted in her workplace for speaking out. Her speaking was an act of bravery.

You scuttled out 15 mins early.

I see daim didn't have a great time at the meeting, what with all those wicked old witches talking in public like they're people or something.

(Didn't realize we were meant to be over 50 and "radfem looking", maybe I can wear a costume if I make it to a meeting? Will have to figure out what "radfem looking" is meant to mean first. Would applying fake warts and greenish foundation a la Pratchett's witches be overkill?)

The sanctimonious postings on here this morning are making me 'sick in the mouth'.

You really don't like women very much do you daimbars.

I came away from the meeting with three main questions for WPUK. I didn't have the balls to speak at the meeting as I felt the reception would be too hostile but I will be contacting them separately about this:

• if you claim to represent all women why was your panel all white? Why was every single member of the audience white? Why was 80% of the audience over the age of 50?

• if you want respectful, evidence-based debate why did you start the meeting calling gender 'a load of bollocks' and jeering at trans women?

• Why do you feel you have the right to speak for all lesbians, when so many of us are sickened and disgusted by the Pride protests actions?

I don’t think anyone ahould bother to enlighten you on this.

I don't believe it happened then. I left 15 minutes before the end and the only women with their hands up to speak were very rad fem looking pensioners.

I saw one young looking woman but she didn't have her hand up to speak.

What did they say?

I don’t think anyone ahould bother to enlighten you on this. If you don’t have the manners to stick around and see the event in full, you shouldn’t get to have your cake & eat it.

Cool story about the security guard bro.

Was so sad to see many very young girls and lesbians protesting. They are so confused. Some young girls came into the meeting and bravely spoke but quickly became so over emotional and aggressive. They did not seem able to grasp what was being said and got hugely emotional and sobbing when they were calmly disagreed with and we moved on to the next point it was teenager stuff really and a shame.

Completely missed this bit!! Shame I would have stayed and backed them up if I'd known.

What did they say?

Shout out to Sussex police who ensured attendees were safe entering and leaving the venue, and to the lovely security firm who were rock solid

I forgot to do a shout out to the venue too - they had a rainbow haired trans / non binary security person inside monitoring the queue which I thought was a stroke of genius. Never seen so many uncomfortable women.

The security guys were lovely, I left early and one offered to escort me out through the car park for my own safety 'ah no it's okay' i said, 'I'm not transphobic, if I get any comments I'll just explain I'm not one of the rad fems'

His face relaxed, 'you seem nice' he said. 'Do you agree with what was being said at that meeting?'

'No not at all' I replied, 'in fact it sickened me'

'Me too' he said, then pointed to the protesters outside 'I'm definitely on their side' he said and winked.

Nice end to the evening.

I was at the Edinburgh WPUK meeting and that was very much our experience of the protestors too. Young naive women and one hulking big guy in a dress - I have no idea how he identified. Afterwards we approached one girl and my friend asked her how she felt about their chanting drowning out the testimony of a rape survivor. She bleated that ‘you’re trying to take trans people’s rights away!’ Before the big guy came over and inserted himself between us. She was clueless. I think most of them are, hence #nodebate. Because they are unable to debate.

I see claims that the videos are edited - I thought they were shown as is?

They are.

Daim can get a hat-shaped cake and eat it - as did archeologist Richard Buckley, after saying "I'll eat my hat if we find Richard III under that car park"

I was there, first such event for me. The protesters were cute, middle class kids with interesting haircuts mostly. They weren't very good at protesting, and thankfully not intimidating, although I did leave to hisses of "shame!" Doc Stock is a bit excellent (very cool, good speaker) and Sheila Jeffreys was in the audience. The other panellists were also quite good. Entryist protester group was funny (to me anyway), the first, a strident middle class girl pretending to be upset and then forgetting, booming her half-formed thoughts into the (unnecessary in her case) microphone. There was a well-refreshed attendee at the front left who I hope isn't picked up too much on the video, as she did more speaking than half the panel. At one point Ms well-refreshed shouted that one can't self-identify as black whereupon the only black person I could see, a protester with pink hair, threw her hands up in the air at the terrible racism, and ran out the back of the room.
That aside, it was noticeable the audience was mostly one demographic group; the average age of the protesters was about 20 by comparison. It's interesting to read about other events with muslim speakers, as the interjection about race brought home to me how unlikely it was that minority women (or men!) would countenance the suggestion that TWAW. Who would win in that legal battle, I wonder?

That is a sign of people being immature and over-emotionally involved, whilst not having applied any critical thinking or even thought through the arguments. There is absolute brainwashing to young people happening here - young people can be very easily influenced - and can be vulnerable.

I know they think they know it all at that age (I did myself, I'm embarrassed to say) but they do not - they don't have the life experience. They've been spoon-fed this gender/trans ideology - and I sincerely think some of them do believe we want to harm them. It's quite the opposite.

Yes Prawn the irony is strong...
IntercontinentalButtCrack
When something as mathematically simple as this one is being so readily misused it's quite worrying.

I see claims that the videos are edited - I thought they were shown as is?

Daim I was there and you are telling porky pies my dear and you know it. Was so sad to see many very young girls and lesbians protesting. They are so confused. Some young girls came into the meeting and bravely spoke but quickly became so over emotional and aggressive. They did not seem able to grasp what was being said and got hugely emotional and sobbing when they were calmly disagreed with and we moved on to the next point it was teenager stuff really and a shame. They left when they weren’t getting enough attention and seemed really unintellectual.

It's late, you say, IntercontinentalButtCrack, small mistake, nothing to see here, but weren't you making very much the same mathematical assertions a couple of days ago on another thread?

Gill Smith was
i outstanding.
I was expecting Kathleen Stock to be intellectual and rigorous (and if I wasn't straight I'd be in love to be honest), I was expecting Ruth Serwotka to be unswerving and committed, I was expecting Helen Saxby to be intelligent and questioning, And they all were, all of those things. (And I now know that Philippa Harvey is the chair every meeting should have. God she was good).

But Smith's contribution was the "essence" of the meeting for me, She talked about how all the shit that makes being a woman, and a lesbian is "a problem" but how it IS NOT, if we say so.

Sorry, it's reallky hard to describe. But she was superb,

Down with this sort of thing!

Venue logistics meant that when I wanted a fag at the end I had to go out and stand right where the protesting was, and we all politely ignored each other in a very a) British and b) Brighton way

So very British.

It was a very good meeting (though I don't recogise daimbar's description of it really!)

The Q and A section had some difficult moments, the people that had come to challenge the meeting got a good amount of airtime but the first woman that spoke for them was (I think, and understandably) very nervous which unfortunately meant that she came across initially as very screechy and aggressive; but the dialogue (while remaining lively) did calm down after that.

The protestors were loud and vocal (which is as it should be, that is what protesting is about) but I didn't see any real intimidation, Venue logistics meant that when I wanted a fag at the end I had to go out and stand right where the protesting was, and we all politely ignored each other in a very a) British and b) Brighton way.

Intercontinental - I said you could argue. It's interpretation of results - ie. appetite for a change to the status quo. Only 18% want a change to the current law.

Daim, I was there tonight, I think you are telling porkie pies.