Urgent: banning gender identity conversion

thebewilderness , you posted exactly what I was thinking....

I thought gender dysphoria was a medical condition, in which case would it not be nice to be able to cure it?

I would not advocate forcing people to act in certain ways depending on their sex, which is what I imagine conversion therapy for trans people would be. In fact, feminists have been fighting against this type of thing forever.

Gender dysphoria is classified as a medical condition which people seek treatment for while homosexuality is not a medical condition and people do not seek treatment for it.
Either of these groups might want to seek mental health treatment for self hatred.

So "internalised transphobia" (NHS GID Service consultation) is something that a transgender individual needs help with, but "internalised homophobia" doesn't exist?

You said it precisely Prawn

And I agree

'Quite the opposite. Calls for the immediate medicalisation of GNC children are for a form of conversion therapy in that it forces children who would otherwise likely have grown up gay or lesbian into quasi heterosexuals on lifelong medication. '

Nobody here would advocate trying to persuade a transgender person to adopt a feminine persona when they identity as masculine or vice versa. That would be conversion therapy. Encouraging free self expression and radical self acceptance is not conversion therapy but could be deemed so by TRAs if it doesn't affirm the presence of a pre-gendered brain in all human beings.

It's no different to LGB conversion therapy.

It's completely different.

We are aware other countries have passed this and there is lobbying worldwide from TRAs. That still doesn't make it a good idea. Or necessarily a bad one. But it needs definition, research, reasoning etc in its own right not just smoke and mirrors and noise. See various questions and comments above just for starters.

Snappity
Many children who think they are transgender are just showing the first signs that they may grow up to be gay or lesbian. If their transgender identity is affirmed by a therapist, this could be seen as a kind of gay conversion therapy.
4thwavenow.com/2015/04/11/research-evidence-most-gender-dysphoric-children-grow-up-to-be-gay-or-lesbian/

They have banned conversion therapy or really any treatment to cure Gays, Lesbians, and Bisexuals, of a sexual orientations.
Gender identity disorder is classed as a medical condition. Banning all treatments but affirmation means limiting the treatment of a medical condition in ways that will harm the patient.

Snap you're being deliberately obtuse and you know it. It isn't discrimination to say that treatment should be looked at differently for different conditions. As 'a lesbian' you're aware that gayness isn't an illness and therefore no treatment is necessary, hence banning conversion therapy. Whereas being trans does require treatment and discussion of what the best path would be. And we all know that offering a child identifying as trans any kind of talk therapy or questioning has been equated to conversion therapy. Hence we don't want that ban to extend to trans kids, lest we be prevented from seeking therapy for them in any other way than assertively promoting transition. It's very simple really. I will watch and wait for sense to prevail.

So gay conversion predicated on the idea that people that want to act or be as certain way are unnatural and would be happier if encouraged to be normal - clearly wrong

transgender conversion behaviour predicated on the idea that individuals would be happier adopting gender conforming roles - clearly wrong (its feminism 101)

transgender conversion making you realise that other people may have assumptions about you that do not fit your internal narrative - this is called growing up

www.metroweekly.com/2018/06/massachusetts-house-passes-ban-on-youth-conversion-therapy/

As understand that one form of conversion therapy for homosexuality is to make the person transgender. Will this be banned?

It's no different to LGB conversion therapy.

To clarify, the article would add weight to the observation that in many instances, a person wishes to try to become the opposite sex as they are deeply uncomfortable with being same sex attracted.

Oh Snappity, you spin and spin yourself in circles. I genuinely don't know what you are referring to.
I have had conversion therapy for homosexuality. It's regressive and unpleasant and involves no actual communication with the person being 'converted'. It's downright abusive.

What kind of thing are you talking about with regards to trans-presenting people? Is there an organisation putting people in a room, and praying bible verses over them for hours, casting out 'demons' and making them reveal sexual fantasies so they can be shamed?

Because the posters here aren't advocating anything like that, so I am asking what you think this thing you have called 'conversion therapy' actually is in relation to transpeople?

Thoughtful article from a student councillor here www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/14753634.2017.1400740?scroll=top&needAccess=true
which discusses how unconscious homophobia may be understood to be driving the rush to label people as being born in the wrong body.

An excerpt:

“Last year, I attended an excellent conference organised by the Birkbeck
Counselling Association on ‘An exploration of sexuality and psychoanalytic
thinking the in twenty-first century’. It was refreshing to hear the speakers
Alessandra Lemma and Leezah Hertzmann acknowledge that the psychoana-
lytic world has a long history of simplistic homophobic attitudes towards
LGBT people, which is now seen to be a largely outdated and shameful
legacy. Until recently, the psychoanalytic training institutions excluded LGBT
applicants on the basis of sexuality, seeing us as psychologically flawed, or at
least ‘immature’. Apparently, this no longer happens, at least not overtly. This
shift is to be celebrated; most right-minded people would be behind this. However, it did set me thinking about what happens when this kind of prejudice
that has to be repressed to fit with prevailing (external) social trends, when
personal (internal) anxieties have not been resolved. And this brought to mind,
a worrying phenomena I have recently become aware of, and that both speak-
ers referred to, which is in the rise of the transgender movement of the unin-
tended, perhaps unconscious intolerance of diversity that fuels demand for a
quick fix to a very complex issue.

There has been a big increase in my line of work, university counselling,
in the numbers of young people accessing services with issues around gender.
I have been concerned by what we are being asked to do as counsellors and
therapists in terms of unquestioning support for young people to make irre-
versible changes to their bodies, without exploring what’s happening at an
unconscious level. In my service, we have had complaints and accusations, that
we are trans-phobic, on the grounds that, rather than automatically accepting
that students who present with this issue are ready to start a process of gender
reassignment, we take a stance of helping them to think things through and
explore what it means to them. What they seem to want is for us to accept that
this is the right decision and to provide emotional support as they begin the
process. But for some of these young 18 and 19 year olds, this would, I
believe, be an ethically irresponsible stance to take. ”

Yes, in case I wasn’t clear (I did put it in my first post) I understand conversion therapy in terms of homosexuality. That’s why I’m not asking about that. None of your links answer the questions either. They really only refer to conversion of sexuality. It’s like the trans bit has just been bolted on.

Sorry last post was about Stonewall link.

That is a definition of gay conversion therapy. It is a completely different thing. Cutting and pasting isn't really an argument. Where is the protocol, practice, definition and research on gender identity conversion therapy? What even is gender identity? What is it you are concerned people will be converted from and to exactly? How does this happen and who does it? Why is this problematic?

We already know what sex conversions therapies consist of for homosexuals who are put through conversion therapy.
Some things that are done to young girls who come out as Lesbians are beyond horrific.

What we do not know and would like explained is what gender conversion therapy consists of.
It is ok to say if you hate the idea and don't really know what it is.

Snappity
Conversion therapy for Lesbians is predicated on eliminating that sexual orientation. There is no orthodox treatment because it is not an issue.
Gender incongruence however involves medical intervention and therefore entails proper diagnosis. The are completely different things.

Another person querying it for trans people but not lesbians and gay men.

This is your definition of gender identity conversion therapy? Querying what?

www.stonewall.org.uk/campaign-groups/conversion-therapy

Why, when the main medical bodies have already said it is unethical?

Good question, this needs further scrutiny, in particular around the points I and others have raised above.