Reality check

Bowlofbabelfish
What has to stop?
All the lies, innuendo, and abuse. Conspiring to distort the results of official surveys.
Promoting publications by unqualified people which encourage schools to break the law by discriminating against trans kids.
Scaring other women into joining the anti-trans cabal.
etc. etc. You know the sort of stuff.

People disagreeing with you isn’t hatred.
No. People spreading malicious lies and rumours intended to make trans people feel threatened is. So is doing those things in order to encourage others to hate, or to think that abusing trans people is normal, acceptae, or even praiseworthy.

^Adequate legal protections? Gender reassignment is listed as a protected characteristic under the EA, as is for example disability, religious belief etc.
Can you please clarify what extra protections you feel are needed that are on top of those given to the other protected groups?^
Inciting hatred is the obvious one. Someone who chooses to follow a religion is protected: someone who is born trans is not.
And there are on-going issues of enforcement of the protections we do have.

How is discussion on MN directly ‘trashing lives’? Well you did a damn good job of trashing mine. After I was diagnosed, my ex and I were working through a civilized break-up ... until
she got suckered into the MN anti-trans board. Within days, everything she had learned about transsexuality was junked. I was abused, physically attacked, and driven out of our home.
My kids suffered in the fallout, as well as both of us. It has taken years to rebuild any mutual respect or trust. And I am one of the lucky ones --- I still see my daughters, and my ex and I still help each other out as friends. In spite of Mumsnet's poisonous influence.
Mumsnet's transphobic influence.is particularly worryimg when there are trans kids in involved. There is clear evidence that with support from family friends and school they can develop into happy, healthy adults. But Mumsnet promotes the opposite -- driving trans kids to self harm and mental illness.
No feminist has punched a transwoman to the floor
Are you sure? And anyway how is this question relevant other than as a piece of fear-mongering innuendo?
No feminist has attacked a transwoman physically
False
No feminist has threatened a meeting of transpeople with a bomb.
More groundless innuendo.
No feminist has masked up and prevented transpeople from meeting or speaking Same again.
We could all play at that game, but the "No trans person has ever...." list would be more serious, and based on real, evidenced incidents, rather than propaganda stunts acted out to fill column inches in the Mail or Times.
No trans person has ever driven an anti-trans activist to kill themselves
No trans person has ever campaigned to have someone dismissed from their job because of a congenital condition.
No trans person has ever sat in the audience of a TV debate shouting "penis penis" at the panellists in order to stop the discssion.
No influential trans person has ever told a mass meeting of her supporters that it's OK to thump people ... and released video of the speech so as to ensure maximum coverage. etc etc.
No trans person has ever campaigned for anyone else's legal protections to be withdrawn.

Wait, that post was supposed to make me nervous!?

Oh

All im getting is a bored feeling...is that like being nervous?

I could be getting the two confused but i dont think that's likely

If ur ex battered u dam u should go to the police and report them

Tis the only thing to do

It’s domestic violence and nobody should be battered by anyone

was that the intention?

YES.

this thread has made me even more nervous about everything

was that the intention?

Bowlofbabelfish
What has to stop?
All the lies, innuendo, and abuse. Conspiring to distort the results of official surveys.
Promoting publications by unqualified people which encourage schools to break the law by discriminating against trans kids.
Scaring other women into joining the anti-trans cabal.
etc. etc. You know the sort of stuff.

People disagreeing with you isn’t hatred.
No. People spreading malicious lies and rumours intended to make trans people feel threatened is. So is doing those things in order to encourage others to hate, or to think that abusing trans people is normal, acceptae, or even praiseworthy.

^Adequate legal protections? Gender reassignment is listed as a protected characteristic under the EA, as is for example disability, religious belief etc.
Can you please clarify what extra protections you feel are needed that are on top of those given to the other protected groups?^
Inciting hatred is the obvious one. Someone who chooses to follow a religion is protected: someone who is born trans is not.
And there are on-going issues of enforcement of the protections we do have.

How is discussion on MN directly ‘trashing lives’? Well you did a damn good job of trashing mine. After I was diagnosed, my ex and I were working through a civilized break-up ... until
she got suckered into the MN anti-trans board. Within days, everything she had learned about transsexuality was junked. I was abused, physically attacked, and driven out of our home.
My kids suffered in the fallout, as well as both of us. It has taken years to rebuild any mutual respect or trust. And I am one of the lucky ones --- I still see my daughters, and my ex and I still help each other out as friends. In spite of Mumsnet's poisonous influence.
Mumsnet's transphobic influence.is particularly worryimg when there are trans kids in involved. There is clear evidence that with support from family friends and school they can develop into happy, healthy adults. But Mumsnet promotes the opposite -- driving trans kids to self harm and mental illness.
No feminist has punched a transwoman to the floor
Are you sure? And anyway how is this question relevant other than as a piece of fear-mongering innuendo?
No feminist has attacked a transwoman physically
False
No feminist has threatened a meeting of transpeople with a bomb.
More groundless innuendo.
No feminist has masked up and prevented transpeople from meeting or speaking Same again.
We could all play at that game, but the "No trans person has ever...." list would be more serious, and based on real, evidenced incidents, rather than propaganda stunts acted out to fill column inches in the Mail or Times.
No trans person has ever driven an anti-trans activist to kill themselves
No trans person has ever campaigned to have someone dismissed from their job because of a congenital condition.
No trans person has ever sat in the audience of a TV debate shouting "penis penis" at the panellists in order to stop the discssion.
No influential trans person has ever told a mass meeting of her supporters that it's OK to thump people ... and released video of the speech so as to ensure maximum coverage. etc etc.
No trans person has ever campaigned for anyone else's legal protections to be withdrawn.

Jeez

Some people really seem to be going to extremes to get people to stop posting and listening

Omg dam
I can’t believe u just wrote u want to see mn shut down
Why woul£ u even do that
I would never g9 on a forum I didn’t like and enjoy
Or is it that we have to be shut up ?
Stop speaking women
Be silent

I and many other people want to see MN shut down

Personally i wouldnt have a massive issue if the (unnamed) poster had said 'mn feminism chat shut down'

But a forum full of support for breastfeeding mums, dads with child issues, relationships, LGBT children, telly addicts???

I mean... what sort of a person wants to do that!!

Actually i know but its those pesky talk guidelines...

You attend an event, there's a scuffle on the stairs, someone gets shoved and gets a sprained ankle, and points the finger at you, and throws in an allegation of hostility and prejudice towards trans people with your mn posting as evedince. You could find yourself with devices being looked at, email accounts checked into etc etc.

Interesting scenario. Like the masked people preventing women from assembling at the women’s rights meeting? Good job no one was physically hurt by them. Very intimidating though. Are our hypothetical coppers checking their tweeting history as well? Good job also that it was filmed.

How would that person know I was on MN? How would they know who I was on MN? Unless they’d targeted or hacked me somehow and in that case it’s them who is getting prosecuted under various laws.

The police are very welcome (with appropriate warrants or whatever one needs) to look at my posting history, email accounts and social media / Facebook etc. They will find absolutely nothing to concern them. It’ll bore them shitless but they’re welcome.

I will not be intimidated by such scenarios, and neither should any poster posting in good faith on here.

I am a GC feminist

I am really sorry to be thick, but not sure what point is being made here? Is it "don't leave MN" or something? What is the "reality check" - do you mean don't be scared?

How would they know who you are on MN though?
If women from here are going to an event let's say WPUK, that is an event about women's rights - it's not an anti-trans event. It's just women talking. So why would the police be interested-they are not interested face it. The police have a duty to protect free speech and deal with those who seek to curtail it
If there's an incident let people allege what they may. So what? You can't live life like that.
I feel like you're trying to scare people into a) not having an opinion and b) not going to an event

And obviously if you've done nothing wrong then it should all work out ok even in that scenario, but I imagine it would be pretty unpleasant to have to fight your corner while it's all being picked over. Massively stressful, and not a situation I'd want to be in. God knows plenty of people are daft enough to think there's no smoke without fire etc etc.

Bowl "None of which apply to a poster raising concerns over weakening of child safeguarding protections. Or to one stating that off label prescription/uncontrolled buying of puberty blockers over the web is worrying. "

No disagreement from me there.

I'm not sure it's helpful to conflate my posts on this thread with coercive control. It's hard enough to get people in general to understand what it is and recognise it without muddying the waters with accusations to some random on the net who points out a possible vulnerability.

Sheesh, I was actually trying to help, but you have got me so thoroughly boxed and labelled that it doesn't matter what I post, you'll go on the attack. Maybe it's marginally better than being ignored.

It wasn't even me that raised the issue of infiltrations or posts being screen capped to "make you look bad". You all seem very well aware that there are others out to paint you as haters. I'm just trying to get the point across that some posts here would be on dodgy ground if associated, rightly or wrongly, with a criminal accusation.

Lumping my post in with the seriousness of domestic abuse seems pretty extreme. By all means, argue the points if you disagree that this is a thing that could happen, but labelling me as abusive in order to dismiss it is just not on.

E.g. You attend an event, there's a scuffle on the stairs, someone gets shoved and gets a sprained ankle, and points the finger at you, and throws in an allegation of hostility and prejudice towards trans people with your mn posting as evedince. You could find yourself with devices being looked at, email accounts checked into etc etc.

And by the way, I have absolutely nothing to do with Damn and their shutdown mn shit.

No hate crime without an actual crime tho so find a criminal offence first then start scaring people.
I've seen far more dubious stuff on Twitter are the police scouring Twitter? No, they prob wish it and FB would close down as they have enough rubbish to deal with and def don't go looking for it

Gendercritter hear hear!

As things stand at the moment, I and many other people want to see MN shut down. We all know that it's only a game to you, and that sooner or later you will get bored and go and find some other minority to bully. But until then, you are trashing real people's real lives -- not just trans people and their families and friends, but the lives of non-trans women and girls who are genuinely frightened because they have been duped into believing your propaganda.

This thread is so important. Thank you Pratchet

And this response I've bolded is so important too.

For lurkers and people reading this in the future, I want to say that if you sat down in front of me, I would happily tell you I am a gender critical feminist. I would say that I value the safety of women and girls and that I am posting a lot on MN about the trans issue solely because of this.

I actually value the safety of trans people too - I want society to be kind and fair generally. I abhor violence. I've never seen any gc feminist say they want to eradicate trans people or that they wish them harm. In fact, I've seen it repeatedly written that gc feminists want everyone to go about their lives as they wish to - wear what you want, do what you as long as it's doing no harm. Why would we think differently?

I believe some trans people suffer crippling gender dysphoria and deserve help. But regardless of that, I believe that you cannot identify into an oppressed class, that sex is an immutable fact and that there are various times that sex segregation matters. Society as it is currently structured means that women as a class experience horrifying levels of violence. To say sex segregation matters has nothing to do with being mean to trans people or being bigoted or again, wanting to eradicate them.

I am not bullying anyone. This isn't a game - this is deadly serious. I am a kind, sensitive, loving individual who is working to try to ensure that society protects the most vulnerable. The most vulnerable in my eyes are females, otherwise there wouldn't be such stratospheric levels of fgm, child marriage, sexual assault in the world, to name just a few issues. One person harmed by men being able to call themselves women is one person too many.

do you see what is happening here? these are control techniques

Indeed they are. Here is an illustration. Everyone should study it and learn to recognise it in action.

ill-will, spite, contempt, prejudice, unfriendliness, antagonism, resentment and dislike."

None of which apply to a poster raising concerns over weakening of child safeguarding protections. Or to one stating that off label prescription/uncontrolled buying of puberty blockers over the web is worrying.

Feminists are not only NOT the ones committing violent acts here, they’re also not framing the debate in terms of hatred.

There is no incitement to hatred from the GC feminist side. There’s plenty of genuine hatred on other web platforms - that’s one reason I don’t hang out there much because I want no truck with any of that stuff.

Nobody posting here in good faith should be intimidated by thoughts of the police monitoring them.

As for the admission that some people want MN shut down and will lobby the government for it, well thanks for confirming what we knew. I still have to ask WHY such people are threatened by MN and are not going after Kiwi/reddit/etc..?

I apologise for missing the tone of the thread. It is important to have calm reasoned discussion minus swearing etc.

The TGLWGH phase really got on my tits nerves and I thought this might be another incarnation of that.

Like having an uptight grandparent at dinner tutting until you conform to a robotic performance of good manners while dying on the inside.

I don't do 'good' manners very well.

I apologise for missing the tone of the thread. It is important to have calm reasoned discussion minus swearing etc.

The TGLWGH phase really got on my tits nerves and I thought this might be another incarnation of that.

Like having an uptight grandparent at dinner tutting until you conform to a robotic performance of good manners while dying on the inside.

I don't do 'good' manners very well.