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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Reality check

385 replies

Pratchet · 28/06/2018 06:54

It's shit but I think we have to be pragmatic. And disclaimer: the below does not refer to all trans people or all transadvocates.

Imagine how many pairs of TRA eyes are trawling every single post on Mumsnet about trans issues. There are the resources, the legal support and the tech experience there to build a civil case, or find the one post that tips over into breaching IPSO and Ofcom guidelines, that can lead to sanction, compensation or worse for MN.

They don't even need eyes. They can build algorithms that trawl mumsnet for them. They want that log of complaints or posts that will enable legal action, criminal action or any other official sanction. There is no lull or respite from this. Mumsnet is the only mass crossover media which enables conversation on this issue which is not trans-agenda driven. It's the only one left that promotes a feminist view. The drive to stop this conversation will not stop, or rest, ever.

And who will they complain to? They will be complaining to people who have had 'trans awareness training' and bodies which have extremely active awareness networks, looking for offensive material. Going back years, through the media, including the BBC and ITV at the highest levels, police, monitoring organisations, government, the civil service, about how vulnerable trans people are, about how oppressed trans people are. What are Mumsnet's chances of coming out the other side and being able to allow this conversation to go on?

We all know this, but it's actually real. It's not theoretical.

Don't do the TRAs' job for them. Please don't jump. Please don't throw yourselves in front of the train. This is David and Goliath, we are amateurs all, new to the field, up against an army of well-prepared professionals. But we can do this.

Here are some links.

www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0009/112500/dip-statement.pdf
www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0019/109711/consultation-diversity-inclusion-plan.pdf
www.allabouttrans.org.uk/about/media-interactions/
www.allabouttrans.org.uk/a-meet-up-with-the-independent-press-standards-organisation/
www.out-law.com/en/articles/2018/february/uk-to-review-laws-on-offensive-online-communications/
www.gov.uk/government/news/home-secretary-announces-new-national-online-hate-crime-hub

Reality check
OP posts:
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prettyusefulsometimes · 28/06/2018 15:45

SuperDandy if the police are going to be looking at my devices, because I posted a chorus from "The Emperors New Clothes" in a thread a couple of days back & I'm also planning to attend a feminist do in Plymouth soon, can they first have a look at why my cordless drill always loses charge in the middle of drilling a hole for the last screw to finish a job? And seeing as so many new posters in FWR are so good at distorting reality can they also go back 15 years and stop me cc'ing my boss into an email that was a bit rude about him (I still cringe).

Super.

This thread needs to be pinned under the new guidelines; it really is an education and affirmation.

Bowlofbabelfish · 28/06/2018 15:45

Inciting hatred is the obvious one. Someone who chooses to follow a religion is protected: someone who is born trans is not.

Both are protected.
Someone who has the protected characteristic of religious belief is protected. Someone who has the protected characteristic of gender reassignment is protected.

Incitement of hatred/ discrimination against either is illegal.

How is someone trans not protected by the law? They have the protected characteristic of gender reassignment.

I’m not sure what you mean by ‘born trans.’

Lancelottie · 28/06/2018 15:40

Specifically, about shutting down women who help other women going through tough times, at that.

All the same, I'm sorry that you were physically attacked, and glad that your current relationship with your ex is on friendly terms for your children's sake.

SophoclesTheFox · 28/06/2018 15:29

That’s a really interesting post, Damn.

Very illuminating. Thank you for your candour.

It’s not often we see such a direct expression that it’s all about shutting down women.

OlennasWimple · 28/06/2018 15:28

thebewilderness - I think the Far Right is often accused of hate crimes, though the Far Left could equally be accused of the same but seems to get more of a free pass

OlennasWimple · 28/06/2018 15:26

Can I just go back to the suggestion that the police are monitoring MN in case a crime has been committed, because I think that is pure bunkum...

The police have very limited resources to investigate actual crimes, never mind to gather evidence in advance of a crime being committed in case it should more accurately be categorised as a hate crime. Any pro-active monitoring of the internet / social media is focused on serious / organised crime, counter-terrorism, child sexual abuse...not women saying things that some people find mean.

Think about how long it took to arrest Anjem Choudry, who repeatedly marched and demonstrated and said on public record some atrocious things. The police really aren't going to shift resources away from dealing with this stuff to check that everything that OlennasWimple posts is in line with all relevant legislation.

The take away from the thread is not to be goaded into saying things that would likely result in a strike or ban, and provide handy screenshot material to beat MN with. But please dont' worry about police involvement (unless you are a genuine criminal, in which case, be very afraid!)

ReluctantCamper · 28/06/2018 15:13

yes, I don't expect I'm the only person who felt a surge of sympathy for ex Mrs Damn after reading that post

Flowers if you're still here

ReluctantCamper · 28/06/2018 15:12

yes, I don't expect I'm the only person who felt a surge of sympathy for ex Mrs Damn after reading that post

Flowers if you're still here

Rufustheyawningreindeer · 28/06/2018 15:11

Sorry light

I think id gone into a stupor after reading the post at 14:12

thebewilderness · 28/06/2018 15:07

Feminism is the political movement for the liberation of women.
I am curious if there are other political movements in the UK that are constantly accused of hate crimes by the opposition?
Is this just UK politics as usual or is it misogyny?

Cascade220 · 28/06/2018 15:06

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ScarletBegonias · 28/06/2018 15:04

MN's servers seem to be either slow or at a standstill this afternoon, although occasionally they come back to life.

Either the heat or a DOS attack, maybe. I hope it isn't the latter but I can't say it would surprise me at the moment.

BeyondFemaleElitist · 28/06/2018 15:02

^"my ex and I were working through a civilized break-up ... until
she got suckered into the MN anti-trans board"you're

Well. That explains a lot.

Snappity · 28/06/2018 15:01

cor blimey. sorry for the repeated posts

I am beginning to think that the servers are slow to respond today

FireFartingDuck · 28/06/2018 14:57

Bloody hell, MN is hard to read today with everything being posted twice all the time!!!

Oh, and Damn, thanks for your candor. Stating openly that you and your buddies want to shut MN down and that this is a revenge mission for you is a very helpful admission.

ReluctantCamper · 28/06/2018 14:47

cor blimey. sorry for the repeated posts

ReluctantCamper · 28/06/2018 14:46

cor blimey. sorry for the repeated posts

ReluctantCamper · 28/06/2018 14:45

No feminist has masked up and prevented transpeople from meeting or speaking

Bobbins Damnthatonestakentryanother2

But the shock and outrage I felt at this footage by the magnificent Julie Bindel turned me from a passive to an active participant in all this, so thanks for the opportunity to post it again.

ReluctantCamper · 28/06/2018 14:44

No feminist has masked up and prevented transpeople from meeting or speaking

Bobbins Damnthatonestakentryanother2

But the shock and outrage I felt at this footage by the magnificent Julie Bindel turned me from a passive to an active participant in all this, so thanks for the opportunity to post it again.

ReluctantCamper · 28/06/2018 14:42

^No feminist has threatened a meeting of transpeople with a bomb.
More groundless innuendo^

or facts as people in this universe know them

www.hastingsobserver.co.uk/news/police-investigating-bomb-threat-against-hastings-meeting-1-8539357

ReluctantCamper · 28/06/2018 14:41

^No feminist has threatened a meeting of transpeople with a bomb.
More groundless innuendo^

or facts as people in this universe know them

www.hastingsobserver.co.uk/news/police-investigating-bomb-threat-against-hastings-meeting-1-8539357

BrandNewHouse · 28/06/2018 14:40

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ReluctantCamper · 28/06/2018 14:38

ah. MN has been a bad influence on your ex Damnthatonestakentryanother2

gotcha

LighthouseSouth · 28/06/2018 14:36

Rufus, I mean the OP.

Honestly, I have got a bit of muddled brain from insomnia, but really, WTAF is going on?

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