As a biologist I can categorically state that human willy bearers are men no debate

Because TheRebel that would be classed as conversion therapy and must never be considered for one moment.

Not really the point of this thread, but still - I was in a shoe shop today, looking at the sale, and there was a transgender woman next to me, looking at the same size as me (I’ve got massive feet!) and they asked the assistant for a wide fitting shoe, but when it came it didn’t fit and it made me think just how different male bodies are to female (talking about sex here, not gender obvs!) and how much discomfort trans people must be in wearing clothes that aren’t designed for their larger wider bodies.

I watched the BBC documentary about the woman with body dysmorphia the other day and it struck me that she was encouraged to change her view of her body, not insist everyone around her agree that she was the ugliest person to ever walk the earth when she was perfectly ordinary looking, why aren’t trans people encouraged to accept their bodies when trying to change gender must cause them so many problems and spend their lives with everyone giving them the side eye and wondering is that a man in a dress?

@Copperbonnet - absolutely. Before all the dictatorial shite started I didn't really think too deeply about the whole issue, because it didn't matter, any more than it matters that there are people in Newcastle writing "NASA LIE - EARTH IS FLAT- NO CURVE" on walls. It's a free country, and it doesn't make any difference if some people think the earth is flat. It bloody well does matter if people are scared of saying it's spheroid.

*Live and let live

You see I was good with that previously.

I don’t care what you wear, what name you call yourself or even too much which pronouns you prefer.

I was happily dealing with all the trans people I encountered with respect and kindness.

But that was before people started telling me that I had to get on board with the newspeak that “transwomen are women”.

That was before people started telling me that women have to relinquish hard won rights for the sake of men.

That was before trans activists started bullying and intimidating women who challenged their agenda.

So no “live and let live” doesn’t work for me any more. I’m not going to passively shrug my shoulders while the Emperor shows off his new clothes.*

This. 100% this.

Right to exist?! I don't think anyone is discussing the wholesale slaughter of women. Your existence is not dependent on the recognition of a word being exclusive to natal women. This is where hyperbole really does not help your cause.

Miss the lynching of women announcement and the baseball bat display to celebrate transgender Pride, did you?

o get back to your favoured derail (of your own thread..

What?

So...fat shaming is about fat people asking everyone to believe they're thin and appropriating the 'rights' of thin people? What?

If you're talking about thin privilege (benefits coming from social perceptions) as being the same as women's rights to have same sex refuges and health care providers etc then I your analogy is even weaker than I first thought.

'Re the fat analogy - to make it accurate, perhaps there would have to be a small but vocal minority of fat people asking everyone else to call them thin. And thin people's right would have to exist for this minority of fat people to try and appropriate. And, basically I don't think this analogy is all that useful or accurate.'

erm, what do you think 'fat shaming' is all about? The fact that you should not notice that someone is fat.

Right to exist?! I don't think anyone is discussing the wholesale slaughter of women. Your existence is not dependent on the recognition of a word being exclusive to natal women. This is where hyperbole really does not help your cause.

What you are talking about is the recognition of natal women of having specific rights which (depending on the specific right), on the whole, I agree with.

There are ways and means of achieving the above. Personally I do not believe deliberately upsetting trans women serves much purpose, especially as I expect the vast majority are naturally on your side.

In any event, to get back to your favoured derail (of your own thread..) Tunnocks Teacakes are pretty unpleasant, with most containing palm oil. Personally I would not feed them to my kids. On the other hand, a delicious M&S chocolate orange biscuit with a strong cup of tea is just the thing on a warm afternoon.

What does a biologist do day to day at work? It's like philosophers or theologians.

Just curious.

Do love a good Tunnocks

My mum shovels Tunnocks Teacakes into my kids.

Re the fat analogy - to make it accurate, perhaps there would have to be a small but vocal minority of fat people asking everyone else to call them thin. And thin people's right would have to exist for this minority of fat people to try and appropriate. And, basically I don't think this analogy is all that useful or accurate.

Anyway! Its all about ice lollies over biscuits for me in weather like this. Twisters all the way!

Naice
I like a Tunnocks Teacake myself,is it a biscuit though,or a little cake ?

By keep stating that biology is a fact you are only addressing one part of the issue.

I only care about that part of the issue. Biological women's right and safety. Im not interested in anything else. I don't have to be. The rest of it is your issue or trans issues.

This whole clash is between a small number of women and an even smaller number of trans women.

Not a small number of women - thousands have signed the petition. That is just the tip of the iceberg of women and men who are concerned about the proposed changes to the Gender Recognition Act and that the existing provisions to protect women in the Equality Act 2010 are not being applied.

This petition petition.parliament.uk/petitions/214118 is asking for women to be consulted before changes to the existing laws that protect women's rights to safety, dignity and privacy.

When the Gender Recognition Act was introduced it was expected that around 5,000 people would register and the impact on existing women's rights and services would be minimal.

Just under 5,000 have obtained a GRC. So that seems to be working as anticipated. But it seems that an unknown quantity of men want access to women's spaces including sports and jobs without making any changes to their bodies or lifestyle while requiring the rest of society to validate their delusions to the disadvantage of women without a debate or consultation with women.

Many decades of hard won safeguarding protocols and societal expectations are being dismantled.

We know that where systems and procedures are lax and uncertain the abusers and predators will step in.

For more information about the existing law and the proposals and how they affect women and why women are concerned visit

fairplayforwomen.com

womansplaceuk.org

Eh, plenty of other fish in the sea/feminists to be pestered on other site.

Wisdom?

Bullshit?

You decide

fermats and angels

To be fair i think that larry is honestly concerned,

Cos if we arent nice and FWR is closed down he wont have a feminism board to impart his wisdom to

Trolly McTrollface.

But as an aside, yes I noticed the "women, play nicely, otherwise the boys will get upset with you, even if what you're saying is scientifically accurate" post. So predictable.

Did most people's trolldars break overnight?

Factual, yes.....but nice, no

Yes, come, come now ladies, we must remember, that no matter what new hellish ways men find to trample our rights, we should still remain polite and nice above all else. It’s just not ladylike to be so hysterical...

Heads up, folks. Before engaging on this thread, you may wish to check out OP's other contribution to this site, started last night.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3290727-What-kind-of-a-man-would-you-be

men who are were assigned female at birth

WHAT DOES THIS EVEN MEAN???

No one is assigned anything at birth, biological facts are documented. If you’re going to talk about gender; define what you mean by it because most feminists believe gender is nothing but a social construct. Are you saying that boys who like dolls are really girls, because stereotypes are a bigger factor in determining sex, than what’s between your legs?