Great piece by academic Kathleen Stock (mentions MN)

apologies for my somewhat stating the obvious psot.

i am dealing (with difficulty) with people in RL that a range of similar issues related to abuse but not trans, and seeing it play out on a grand scale is a bit frightening and depressing.

luckily some women are still up for the fight! thank you to you all

She makes a great point that male speech is never policed this way. There is all manner of misogyny out there with no one jumping down the throats of men to stop it...

MN is enforcing female servility.

Yep, but it's not going to work. The more draconian the rules become, the stronger our resistance.

Great article

And of course isn't all of this linked with abuse and patterns of abuse.

Gender dypshoria, identity disorder, naricssism, emotional dysregulation, aviodance, delusion, all come from past abuse/ trauma. Big hurts and small hurts. abuse by a thousnad paper cuts. The internalisation of shame, externalising shaming behaviour, bullying and mis-directed anger, abuse of power and control, sexual fetishes.

As ever some people manage to break out but others simply people perpetuate the toxic effects. We are just seeing it on a societal scale, not seen since the nazis, and not in some isolated cult.

I say people because it is men and women who can be damaged or scared, trapped and complicit, and defend their own damaged mindset and turn it on others. Hence MN captiulating. Even if it is caused originally by toxic masculinity.

So many people are so far down the rabbit hole they don't know they are in it. Society it so far down the rabbit hole. This is serious shit. We are mostly fucked.

Philosophy teaches one to think in a critical way.

It does indeed. So that won’t go down well ...

I suppose MN is enforcing female servility.

Don't say THAT to a man! Or Else!

It's quite abusive actually to have MN censoring us women the way they are.

I work in the field of philosophy, and it's a mistake to think that Stock isn't qualified to talk about this topic because she specialises in aesthetics. Philosophy teaches one to think in a critical way. Philosophers are trained to pick apart, and construct, arguments on a wide variety of topics. You don't need to have specialist training in a subject area to tell whether an argument is strong or weak. Stock is simply pointing out that a great many arguments in favour of transgenderism are poorly constructed, and invalid.

Best article I have read

Sh3 explains i5 so clearly and able to understand it

Mumsnet hq shoul£ b3 reading it

Awesome !!

Great article! I’m also very angry at effectively being told to watch your mouth. It plays into a long history of women being threatened with violence for daring to speak. Disgustingly misogynistic.

Joan Summers wrote: "I am done with being told to watch my mouth.

And yet I advise my own children to watch theirs on this topic because even the slightest of honest discussions could see them disciplined in allegedly educational environments".

This is precisely why I can't shake the impression (expressed on other threads) that we're caught up in a social conformity experiment that is taking place without prior ethics approval or any oversight.

Great contribution Damn
'Expert', 'knowledgeable about the subject'. Glorious irony on this funny sunny day

“Don’t express an opinion on what women are; leave it to trans women to decide that. Don’t be assured. Don’t be bold. Don’t be whimsical or linguistically playful. Don’t try to be funny. Watch your mouth.”
This is the message that is being sent to all women every time some one gasps and tells us ‘you can’t say that!’

EstrellaDamn
That's a great piece. I have to say 'Watch your mouth' actually chilled me to the bone a little. That's exactly how this silencing feels: threatening, masculine, dark.

I felt exactly the same way. And I think that is why so many women are angry with Mumsnet about this and are arguing loudly instead of just walking away - we are hearing Watch Your Mouth, and our rage at every single time we have been told this is bubbling to the surface. I am done with being told to watch my mouth.

And yet I advise my own children to watch theirs on this topic because even the slightest of honest discussions could see them disciplined in allegedly educational environments. This is insane, it's hurting us, it's hurting our children, and all so some men can have their feelings cushioned from reality???

Great article, especially the last sentence.

All the LOLs!

Very powerful, I live in a rural northern county and genuinely feel that without mn I would know nothing of what is going on. My bright degree educated dd has no knowledge of this as it is not common knowledge round us. By the time it is widely known as to what is happening it will be too late. I hate that such a minority are changing the rules when they already have human rights and there are far more important matters to campaign about.

Bravo damnthat 😀

Besmirching, I think Damn may have done exactly that m

Did damnthat just make Stock’s point for her?

Yep, happens every time.

Did damnthat just make Stock’s point for her?

Yy Lang and estrella

But she’s talking about belief systems and the way they are used to police the ways women’s words are used. Which is relevant to the discussion, this board, the twittersphere (my goodness, such a wanky term I can’t believe I just wrote that...) and social media / public engagement.

Absolutely. And she nails it.

That's exactly how this silencing feels: threatening, masculine, dark.

Yes. The absolute entitlement of the political demands - highly threatening. I think Kathleen has done so well to write about it in a distinctly womanly, humorous way but without ducking the threatening and hostile environment women find themselves in.

That's a great piece. I have to say 'Watch your mouth' actually chilled me to the bone a little. That's exactly how this silencing feels: threatening, masculine, dark.