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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Great piece by academic Kathleen Stock (mentions MN)

214 replies

Ereshkigal · 27/06/2018 09:22

medium.com/@kathleenstock/when-bindels-speak-b305625a7521

So so good.

OP posts:
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R0wantrees · 02/07/2018 19:35

It resonates with points made by Camille Paglia

www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=4&v=I8BRdwgPChQ

recent thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3291763-Lessons-from-history-Transgender-Mania

ErrolTheDragon · 02/07/2018 19:29

Wow, that's an interesting response - not so much the direct respondents position, unfortunately predictable, but the partner's analysis.

R0wantrees · 02/07/2018 19:15

She's in a far stronger position than a newish lecturer on a fixed term contract would be.

From Kathleen Stock's, 'Anonymised responses from other academics to my articles on sex, gender, and philosophy'

latest comment:
“I am a fellow academic without secure employment, so I’m sure you can understand my keeping a low profile. I’ve already had trans students (with whom I get on very well, as an aside – I see no conflict between being critical of the gender essentialism/self-ID nonsense and being supportive of transsexuals) express concerns that I even follow people they recognise as gender critical, so I am well aware of the current state of the debate.

My partner (also an academic) and I discussed this morning what other successful minority single issues transcend the current political left/right divide in the anglosphere, and we came up with a shortlist of three only: US/UK trans activism, esp. in regard of self-ID, US gun rights, and the US pro-life argument. All three also share the support of well-funded pressure groups, as well as majority opposition (an estimated 75% of the general population oppose self-ID, ~80% of the US population allegedly support tighter gun control, and likewise c. 67% of the US population apparently support abortion rights).

With my own sense that these issues are somehow ‘texturally’ connected at the back of my mind, I asked him what else unifies these issues (he is a US national, and arguably has a better intuitive understanding of the US-based movements). He thought for three seconds, and then said “toxic masculinity”, with quiet shock in his voice. For context, I should add that he does not generally take an uncritically feminist stance, but can best be described as a man who arrives consistently, but sometimes grudgingly, at a feminist position in discussions, based on reasoning.

The three are rarely discussed in this light, although their reconfiguration suggests that they are connected by, as my partner put it, a particular expression of male sexuality.

I have no idea what to do or where to go with my concerns in this matter, as I have financial responsibilities and insecure working conditions. I genuinely cannot afford to chip away at my employability at this point in my career. I am unlikely to be quite so shy when I eventually have a secure position, however. And, as you are undoubtedly aware, there are many more of my disposition who keep a low profile for similar reasons.”

medium.com/@kathleenstock/anonymised-responses-from-other-academics-to-my-articles-on-sex-gender-and-philosophy-f1cc0db04554

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 02/07/2018 17:58

It's good that Kathleen Stock is fairly senior (Reader). She's in a far stronger position than a newish lecturer on a fixed term contract would be. And I see she has a recent book out with OUP - counts for a lot in the humanities ime.

R0wantrees · 02/07/2018 16:56

So is this the basis on which women are reported / shadow banned etc on Twitter?

thebewilderness · 02/07/2018 16:36

Transgender advocates and lobbyists have declared women's right anti-trans, ergo any advocating for or discussion of women's rights is transphobic.

See how that works?

R0wantrees · 02/07/2018 16:35

Michael Biggs
Associate Professor in Sociology and Fellow of St Cross College writes:
'Free speech at Oxford:
Do women have the right to meet to discuss legislation?'
users.ox.ac.uk/~sfos0060/FreeSpeechOxford.pdf

"A [WPUK} meeting was held [in Oxford] on 25 April 2018 to discuss proposed changes to the law on gender recognition. The proposed legislation will eliminate sex-segregated spaces and activities, from women’s refuges to competitive sports. In a democracy, people have the right to meet to discuss—and indeed oppose—legislative changes. This should be incontrovertible. I am appalled that a small number of students at Oxford used extreme measures to stop this meeting from being held....
(concludes)
I have entered this debate not because I am a feminist but because freedom of speech is one of the highest values of a democratic society, and the basic foundation of university life.
Transgender activism poses a grave threat to freedom of speech. I think of the young MPhil student who had to disguise herself to attend this meeting because she feared the reaction of fellow students. This is the generation that we have educated."

thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3257819-Michael-Biggs-Sociology-Dept-Oxford-Free-speech-at-Oxford-Do-women-have-the-right-to-meet-to-discuss-legislation

PeakPants · 02/07/2018 16:24

Thinly veiled message: please sack Kathleen Stock and publicly denounce her. Anything less will be seen as being complicit in hate and violence and I won’t be happy until all these women are driven out of their jobs.

Sort of what happened to Becca Reilly-Cooper too. You need nerves of steel for this.

RadicalFern · 02/07/2018 15:04

Fox are so special that they are plural...

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 02/07/2018 15:02

How can Fox be alumni? Don't they mean alumnus/a or are they identifying as plural now?

R0wantrees · 02/07/2018 14:49

Twitter

Great piece by academic Kathleen Stock (mentions MN)
R0wantrees · 30/06/2018 09:49

Kathleen Stock is one of the speakers at the next WPUK meeting (Brighton)

Great piece by academic Kathleen Stock (mentions MN)
Bowlofbabelfish · 30/06/2018 07:50

I think I might. Although so immobile with spd I may be harpooned before I get out....

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 30/06/2018 03:48

I repeat my advice to get an old fashioned kid's paddling pool and lie out in the garden, with your bump emerging from the water like Mount Fuji.

thebewilderness · 30/06/2018 03:28

I remember being pregnant in the summertime.
Moan.

Grin Cake Brew

PeakPants · 29/06/2018 19:19

Damn you were OWNED there. GCSE my arse. It's like when Snappity purports to be a legal expert....

I think people like damn get confused by the kindness and politeness extended to trans people by many leading medical professionals. They are being kind to you- none of them ACTUALLY think you have changed sex because they know that is possible.

In terms of the biological knowledge you need in order to grasp this, it probably is about GCSE level, yes. Which means that more or less anyone is actually qualified to talk about this.

PlanetPiffle · 29/06/2018 17:55

Excellent article. Not sure my dd would understand all of it but I may give her a crack at it because I can't seem to explain the trans issue to her without sounding like I have something against trans people in general - she's at the terribly right-on teenage stage and I am just a terrible old woman she's related to.

Bowl - I bow to your scholarly achievements. Awesome. Enjoy the rest of your pg (as much as one can when aching and puking). Bundle of joy...worth it... Bear Flowers

enoughisenough12 · 29/06/2018 17:42

Yay Bowl.
Now you can educate us with your vast GCSE knowledge of biology and science (& other issues) for days on end as put your feet up and eat cake Cake
Enjoy. It's a great time.

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 29/06/2018 17:37

Happy maternity leave, oh bowl shaped Bowl! It's a precious time.

Bowlofbabelfish · 29/06/2018 17:02

thanks!!! GrinBrewCake

LangCleg · 29/06/2018 16:54

Yay Bowl! Happy maternity leave!

Bowlofbabelfish · 29/06/2018 16:46

It is but I am DONE with work as of about ten mins ago! Woooohooooo!!!

Far too hot though.. urgh.

MnerXX · 29/06/2018 16:45

Excellent work Bowl and hope you manage to get some respite before the arrival of your DC. It must be tricky in the heat!

Rufustheyawningreindeer · 29/06/2018 15:29

Well colour me disappointed Sad

CaptainBrickbeard · 29/06/2018 15:17

Rufus of course not. I think Bowl won that particular challenge!

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