Diva magazine is trans inclusive

Single sex spaces will still exist but the balance shifts from including trans men (who are men) to including trans women (who are women) and that must surely be a good thing.

Snappity, as you have already acknowledged that there are women who have issues sharing with transwomen (and you have advocated for segregated spaces for them), I wonder if perhaps there is a misunderstanding about what these spaces are called?

If you call spaces that include women and transwomen “single sex”, what do you think would be a good name for the spaces you spoke about that were for women only, and don’t include transwomen?

If we can get a name for these spaces then we can all be clear what we are talking about

Single sex spaces will still exist but the balance shifts from including trans men (who are men) to including trans women (who are women) and that must surely be a good thing.

How someone can call this a 'good thing' right after a post about half of all transwomen in prison being there for sex offences, is beyond me.

Identifying as a woman does not change male pattern criminality. So unless you want to abandon sex segregation, your posts make no sense.

Single sex spaces will still exist but the balance shifts from including trans men (who are men) to including trans women (who are women) and that must surely be a good thing

No. Its not a good thing.

Self ID will lead to more offences against women and girls because single sex spaces will no longer exist.

Single sex spaces will still exist but the balance shifts from including trans men (who are men) to including trans women (who are women) and that must surely be a good thing.

I'm not sure what prostitution has to do with breaking into the neighbour's house and wanking into their teenage daughter's knickers, but there you go

I've even seen GC posters say 'what is needed is a crime committed by a trans woman...' as they want proof their gut instinct is correct. Which makes it all the more obvious that this is not gut instinct, just simply prejudice.

The shocking number of males identifying as transgenders currently incarcerated as sex offenders give the lie to your statement about lack of evidence as well as your fake quote and false allegation against gender critical posters on this board.
I have no idea if this shocking degree of dishonesty and false accusations is against the new improved talk guidelines, but it is certainly far outside the bounds of common decency.

Prostitution convictions don't make you a sex offender, Snappity. 47% of male prisoners who identify as women in the UK are sex offenders.

Prostitution isn't illegal in the UK.

No it isn't. Nearly half of all transwomen in prison are there for sex offences.

Since a lot of trans women have had to turn to prostitution and other sex work because they are so marginalised, is that really surprising?

I don't get how a transactivist can pretend they haven't just read 50 pieces of evidence that counters their argument, that all the lurkers have also just read.

Too long in the 'hormone wash'?

Daim would you say you agree with Snappity, who thinks that women who have issues sharing spaces with transwomen should be able to access segregated spaces?

Snappity thinks that there should be some form of gatekeeping before allowing women to access these spaces, eg a PTSD diagnosis.

What do you think about this?

I am pointing out this is not based on evidence, just a feeling.

No it isn't. Nearly half of all transwomen in prison are there for sex offences.

Though I tend to the view that the more often barmy transactivist claims are exposed to logic the better it is for women and girls.

I don't get how a transactivist can pretend they haven't just read 50 pieces of evidence that counters their argument, that all the lurkers have also just read.

It's weird.

It is so disingenuous to keep harping on that fear of men is the same as being afraid of a disabled person or a person of colour.

Its disgusting

Self ID will lead to more offences against women and girls because single sex spaces will no longer exist. The facts and the arguments that go with this are well known to you, Daim.

Please don't pretend you need it explained to you all over again. One might begin to wonder if you were being disingenuous, hoping to prod posters into saying something deletable by rehashing old debates. Though I tend to the view that the more often barmy transactivist claims are exposed to logic the better it is for women and girls.

Gosh, it's like Groundhog Day isn't it?

Daim - why do you think that we currently have single sex spaces? How can you not see that self-ID in effect removes the protection offered by those single sex spaces?

But why should a women be able to dictate that her gut instinct should be the basis of the law with no supporting evidence?

The law isnt based on gut instinct. It’s based on the verifiable fact that men as a class are a danger to women and children and so men as a class are excluded from certain single sex spaces.

Every aid agency on the planet presses the need for, for example, single sex toilet provision to directly prevent sex crime. Based on sound data.

So it’s not based on gut instinct and it is based on supporting evidence.

What makes you think the law is based on gut instinct?

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If only people fought VAW with this much passion and tenacity.

I’ll be brutally honest: I don’t trust anyone, any group or any lobbyist who tries to weaken safeguarding, whether or not their motives are kind but misguided, or not.

Absolutely. At this point TRAs are waving more red flags than Morocco's fans at the World Cup.

Gut instinct is based on reading microexpressions and behaviour analysis.

Exactly.

Women's radar is finely honed. Because in many cases their life will depend upon it.

Gut instinct is based on reading microexpressions and behaviour analysis.

www.amazon.co.uk/Gift-Fear-Gavin-Becker-ebook/dp/B0036Z9U2A?tag=mumsnetforum-21

the-eye.eu/public/Books/Radical%20Feminist%20Literature/Gavin%20de%20Becker/The%20Gift%20of%20Fear%20%28123%29/The%20Gift%20of%20Fear%20-%20Gavin%20de%20Becker.pdf

Working Together (our overarching guidance about safeguarding) is very clear that everyone working with children and families" must be alert to their needs and any risks of harm that individual abusers or potential abusers, may pose to children".

Think about that.

And then think about the AllSorts guidance, which advises schools to ignore multi-agency working and not inform all involved parties - professional and parental - with regard to SEND children who are questioning their gender.

daimbars

No, let's keep DBS checks. DBS checks are unbiased. Gut instinct is biased.

Gut instinct is based on subliminal signals and experience. The signals and experience that women have are unique to them being female. It's unique to the consequences of ignoring the signals, like becoming pregnant, for instance. Or not having the requisite physiology to win a fight with a man.

Nonetheless, we don't actually base laws and social protocols on gut instinct.

Safeguarding laws are backed up with decades of evidence and statistics to show that men, as a class, pose a threat to women and children, as a class. The same statistics that demonstrate 98% of sexually violent crime is committed by men. Not women.

There is no evidence, at all, to indicate that this changes if they identify as a woman.

Laws are based on evidence - gut instinct arrives at exactly the same conclusion, based on the same thing.

This is so tiring and tedious.
I can't even count the numerous threads that have been on here over the years, talking about this very fact.

Women relaying experiences. All remarkably similar. And then psychologists, lawyers, and safeguarding experts coming on to explain about the body of evidence and the way these situations are dealt with in our society. And why.

And how to recognise the signs.

The number of acronyms like DARVO which have been coined as a result.

Human behaviour often conforms to a pattern. And when you have 12 million women talking about it, sharing their knowledge, the partterns become very recognisable. It's a stunning piece of social development.

How many women have been unutterably grateful for learning about The Script on the relationships board, for example?

So it's incredibly boring when people come on to try and re-write women's experience and safeguarding protocols, based on their own self-interest and claiming that gut instinct should be ignored.

Not just boring, but familiar. So bloody familiar.

The consistent silver lining to this is that women get to talk about it more. And people are listening more.