Diva magazine is trans inclusive

in certain circumstances. A sexual abuse support group? Yes. The ladies loo at work? No.

Well this is where we start from, yes.

We all agree that women who have issues sharing spaces with transwomen should have the right to segregated spaces.

You think that their are only some situations when this is acceptable.

Snappity thinks that the women should have a doctors letter in order to access these segregated spaces.

I think that if we accept the basic principle (that women who have issues sharing spaces with transwomen should have the right to segregated spaces) then we are accepting that sharing spaces with transwomen has a negative impact on these women, enough to warrant separate spaces.

I don’t see then how we can say that this negative impact is acceptable in some circumstances arbitrarily determined by someone other than the woman in question?

Gut instinct is biased.

Too bad. Read the Gift of Fear. That's why we don't want male people in female spaces. We need to be able to act on red flags. Like men deliberately invading the boundaries of women knowing that many women don't consent. Which is a pretty massive one.

The double standards here are disgusting.

I absolutely agree

It's not down to you to decide which single sex spaces women are expected to lose, Daim

This.

The loo at work is required by law to have single sex provisions for both males and females.

It's not down to you to decide which single sex spaces women are expected to lose, Daim. It's our courtesy and female socialization that have been exploited by transactivists and now that several hundred miles have been taken instead of the proferred inch, many women have reconsidered.

Own goals, half the time. Transactivists say "educate yourself" - I did and it totally endorsed my gender critical views. They say women are lying about male violence and we produce statistics. And so on.

How rude! Is it because her appearance isn't as feminine as you'd like?

The double standards here are disgusting.

Daim - your second example, Aydian Dowling talks about a public loo experience very candidly here:

m.youtube.com/watch?v=O1xAcJ2qi1o

Seems to me that the best options for Aydian would be either neutral third spaces or more private, locakable spaces in men’s rooms and that in some situations Aydian is willing to trade declaring his birth sex status in order to access female facilities (and ask staff for support and assistance) but that is somewhat dependent on how Aydian is feeling in the moment.

I 100% support Aydian’s right to privacy and dignity when accessing public toilets and support legislation to provide the same privacy and dignity for all.

Danielle Muscato (good lord how is that a woman?!)

How rude! Is it because her appearance isn't as feminine as you'd like?

Yep @LemonJello in certain circumstances. A sexual abuse support group? Yes. The ladies loo at work? No.

Why do you get to decide what women should be ok with? I disagree with your opinion.

It’s so positive to have this as a starting point for discussions.

Just a shame Damn’s not on board, but given that they want to shut down Mumsnet I don’t think they will be interested in the strides forward we have made today

Now I’m going out to enjoy the sun!

It’s so positive to have this as a starting point for discussions.

Just a shame Damn’s not on board, but given that they want to shut down Mumsnet I don’t think they will be interested in the strides forward we have made today

Now I’m going out to enjoy the sun!

I am all for sex segregation. The exceptions in the Equality Act ensures it is lawful to trans trans women differently to women in some circumstances.

So you would call this sex segregation then? That’s interesting because Snappity wasn’t sure about terming it that.

But great to hear that you, Snappity, SupermatchGame (and me!) are all in agreement that women who have issues sharing spaces with transwomen need access to separate spaces.

What's that rufus, snappity agreed with us? That's fantastic!!

Kudos snappity, not many people have the balls to admit they have changed their minds

I'm surprised posters keep focusing on Laith Ashley, and that no one has mentioned that transman who does porn with gay men whose name I have totally forgottem and I'm not googling on my work machine.............

Buck Angel? Still not googling it though............

You can include me in the lemon and snappity camp

I think its awesome that people are becoming a bit more open minded

Would be great if daim felt able to comment too?

Even if you don’t agree with Snappity and I daim, maybe we can explain why segregation is sometimes important to meet the needs of both women and transwomen, and this might help you see our pov?

Women have facial hair too, Daim, we really do.

And the Attitude front cover? That's Laith Ashley too, not a different "convincing trans man"...

I've seen gay men describe transmen as Hobbits, because they say they're short, heavily bearded and have far wider hips than men.

That's brilliant, although I'm a bit concerned by the suggestion that T also gives you hard, hairy feet................

If gay men have come up with a slang term, says a lot about perceptions. Could have been worse, could have been dwarfs given the short and bearded (although strictly speaking did Tolkien hobbits have beards? And then camp gay men, they could be elves, and the heavy S&M/leather and bears could be orcs.............. A whole new perspective on the gay scene!)