Diva magazine is trans inclusive

Trans 'lesbians' using Lesbian dating sites reek of narcissism and entitlement.

Who they have no sexual interest in.

There are multiple threads on Reddit and other open fora where gay men are complaining about Grindr no longer being focused on gay men and that - to put it bluntly - they are looking for sex with a penis, not a vagina.

Not just that. The gay men I've spoken to about it say it's now overrun with "straight" men looking for a trans "girlfriend" not another gay man. And the said trans "girlfriends".

Someone was on here in the last few months saying their friend was a transman, had had bottom surgery and was sleeping with women, some of whom didn't know this person was trans.

That is a criminal offence. There's an obligation to reveal.

Interesting about Grindr Now MEN are being told what they must do sexually i reckon the tide will turn again on this.

I had a flick through Diva a while ago in WH Smith Was thinking of getting my niece a subscription but i wanted something that would be just for lesbians and bi women of which she is the former.

"If it is just got a sexual hookup from a night out then I do not see the problem. "
This is the sort of attitude I find very worrying! It has to be informed consent, and someones actual, biological, objectively verifiable sex, as opposed to what sex they appeared to be...........
Heterosexual or homosexual or bisexual, consent isn't consent unless freely given and informed. And this can and should get very specific, if someone is only consenting based on particular acts (using a condom, an actual penis as opposed to a strap on -- these are all cases that have been tested in court). And whatever the courts may say as regards phalloplasty on a female, I would view it as similarly needing someone to be fully informed before the consent can be meaningful. Because if someone might say no if they knew, they they are not fully consenting, and if someone doesn't mind, what do you gain by not making things clear? The only gain here I can see is sex with someone who would not have consented if they knew, and there is a name for that kind of thing............

How is it not goady to post this in the feminist topic?

Pencils said this earlier on a different thread. I hope she doesn't mind me quoting her?

Mumsnet now feels inherently hostile to gender critical feminists. I don't think it feels inherently hostile to trolls. They appear to be having a good time.

How is daimbars op related to feminism? GC feminists post things about trans issues here because of the threat they perceive to women's rights. But TRAs post pro-TRA stuff here...? Why?

The only possible answer is to goad us.

Is that ok now?

gendercritter Thank you for saying so, though I feel like I am the spawn of Satan half the time..

As per my previous message I do acknowledge that bullying and coersion and using 'you're a bigot' as a weapon to achieve sex is wrong.

As for the question about the trans man.. I don't know.. I mean I think I am pretty lucky with my appearance but I am not naive enough to think people can't tell all the time and if they can't it is usually my voice my gives me away.. But I mean.. I guess if this transman has had bottom surgery and passes perfectly, well.. If it is just got a sexual hookup from a night out then I do not see the problem.

BUT personally.. I would probably choose to sit them at the bar or try to go somewhere quiet (but not completely alone) and tell them.. but that is me..

If we are talking about a relationship or where there is sufficient opportunity to bring it up then it should be.. But at the same time I can empathise with not wanting to because it is something that I shamefully hid for so long and it took me a long time to divulge it.

I am proud but at the same time its deeply personal thing to tell someone who has no investment in you in return.

Pretty sure the one thing that lesbians 'do' are vaginas...those good old fashioned becunty ones. It is literally their one USP.

Good for them. I'm all for freedom of speech and freedom of the press. Of course these are dire times for print publishing and if they think they have a niche market, that's their right to decide. They can risk all the women/ lesbians losing interest and going elsewhere. I'm a bit bored with Daim et al coming here to patronise me though.

Example of my typical types of communication on dating apps/sites

Yes but you sound like a decent human being Nat. Not everyone is.

There are tw coercing lesbians into sleeping with them. There is evidence of that all over the internet. Some women are very vulnerable and very easily coerced - particularly if they're scared of being labelled bigots. Do you acknowledge that even happens?

Someone was on here in the last few months saying their friend was a transman, had had bottom surgery and was sleeping with women, some of whom didn't know this person was trans.

I consider that rape. It's not consensual. I don't think there are many times a trans person would pass so well that it could happen but still.

Yawn, same old...

What exactly do you want? Attention? Agreement? Submission?

You’re not changing anyone’s mind here as to what a lesbian is. We see you.

"Feminism means equality of the sexes

No it doesn’t.

Interesting that my experience of the whole usage of 'identify' was in the context of men who have sex with men, and safer sex campaigns. So, as I recall, at some point the issue was men who had sex with other men, but who didn't identify as either gay (or bi). They were just chaps who had sex with chaps, but, for example, might have had a wife and children as well, and a totally straight heterosexual lifestyle apart from some of their recreational sexual activities.

So, in order to make sure that safer sex material reached this group as well, language had to be found. But note that the line was not erasing or hiding the material reality (males who had sex with other males), but admitting that not everyone used the same words for their lifestyle choices. This isn't the same as current 'identify as' usage, which seeks to obfuscate or ignore the material facts, like the actual sex or genital configuration of participants.

I don't care what someone identifies AS (unless I am asking more social questions about why someone who is homosexual, doesn't call themselves gay or lesbian or whatever), I care about what they are and what they do. The objective versus the subjective.

I do appreciate the linguistic comments made by others, I will admit it hadn't actually occurred to me that calling a relationship between a bisexual woman and a lesbian a lesbian relationship might not necessarily be the best usage. Words matter, reality matters, and opinions may differ...................

DIVA isn't the lesbian equivalent of Big Brother BTW, we are (still) allowed to disagree with the editors of a commercial enterprise as to what our own shared reality as lesbians means, or should mean...............BTW, just looking for some poetry by Judy Grahn, and came across instead 'Metaformia, a journal of menstruation and culture' that she is editor of. And the Psychoanalysis of Edward the Dyke is still worth reading!

daimbars

"Feminism means equality of the sexes, it's not about excluding anyone."

ROFLMAO.

Has anyone got a copy of "Feminism For Beginners" they could send to dear old Daim?

You might as well say

"Lesbianism is about excluding no-one."

*JuzzaL

Well seeing as I'm a lesbian and a feminist I thought it was pretty relevant enoughisenough

You don't even know what either of those two things mean.*

Again with the policing? She is both of those things. It might not sit with YOUR definition of feminism and you might not agree with her including transwomen within the lesbian community but that is not her problem.

Bowlofbabelfish - But it is not really like that..

Example of my typical types of communication on dating apps/sites

~you've matched with someone! / You've received a message~

Me: Oh cool! -starts messaging/replying-

Me: Heyy! How are you today?
Girl: Hii! I'm okay thanks, what about you?
Me: Yeah I am okay, listen, this is a total mood killer of a question but I need to ask you, did you see that I am trans?

Scenario 1

Girl: Glad you are well too! Yeah I did see, it doesn't bother me.

Scenario 2

Girl: Oh sorry I didn't see, but it doesn't bother me. Glad you are well though!

Scenario 3

Girl: Oh sorry I didn't see, I don't think that it would work out
Me: Hey that is okay, you don't need to apologise!

Where is the negotiation???

All to often the line pushed on Mumsnet is that being feminist means being gender critical and refusing to see trans women as women and lesbians (if that is their sexual orientation). This is yet more proof that a lot of femists see the world very differently.

Indeed. Damn this biological reality that keeps getting in the way of TRA fantasies.

Lesbian: Female homosexual.

Homosexual: Exclusively attracted to the same sex.

Female: of or denoting the sex that can bear offspring or produce eggs, distinguished biologically by the production of gametes (ova) which can be fertilized by male gametes.

Rinse and repeat.

I am not a lesbian. I am a straight woman.

I do not need to justify not including women in my ‘potential pool of people I might shag/fancy.’

I exclude women en masse, because I’m straight. That appears fairly logical to me and I’d be surprised and annoyed to be told it’s not.

I expect lesbians to be able to exclude males from their ‘pool of potential people they might shag’ en masse simply because they are male.

No other reason.

No ‘must take it case by case.’

To say a lesbian MUST look at every partner and justify why they don’t want to shag them is the rape culture bit. It’s denying their choice, as lesbians, to shag only women.

It’s the same issue we are facing everywhere isn’t it? NO means NO. Except it doesn’t, it means the start of a negotiation, and if that doesn’t work, being forced.