Diva magazine is trans inclusive

Men like to talk about femanism as though it were anything more than the corporate misogynist backlash against Feminism. You know, Feminism? The POLITICAL movement for the liberation of women?
Criminy!

I asked a very specific question, which was not about anyone being asked to leave, but was about what weight NatLuc puts on other people's feelings versus their own

I don't know about NatLuc but I have noticed a distinct reluctance for people to answer my questions so nowadays I am very selective which questions I choose to answer.

I find the use of the word "girls" by some transgender males incredibly bizarre.

You see, I don't. Because although the old fashioned transsexuals often tried to identify with women and actually care that we don't want men in the shower with us, the great majority of the new type are very classically macho entitled males with a serious porn habit.

Of course they call themselves "girls". Their creepy sexual preoccupations are laid out all over the internet - in Reddit, blogs, in countless forums, where these "girls" are no more than wank fodder for themselves. The contempt they feel for us is all too clear.

That's not what I asked daim.

I asked a very specific question, which was not about anyone being asked to leave, but was about what weight NatLuc puts on other people's feelings versus their own.

If you scroll back up, you'll see the question right there, just as I wrote it.

3rd wave neoliberal fauxminism has nothing in common with 2nd wave feminism. The philosophical differences are massive.

Neoliberals view everyone as a distinct individual that makes individual choices and doesn't analyse systems of power or how these systems affect groups of people. There is simply no class analysis in 'we want equality' feminism.

The obvious question here is 'equal to who?' Men? You want to play within the male system of power? You want to be like men? Men are your standard for whether things are good or not?

2nd wave feminism is about systems of power and sees class analysis as central. Women are a sex class in 2nd wave feminism that are oppressed based on that sex class. 2nd wave feminism is about LIBERATION of females from male systems of power.

We don't want to be equal to men. We want to be liberated the whole male supremacist system.

It would help if you read second wave works because the 3rd wave has basically turned into a men's rights movement.

I think the next wave of feminism will be a return to the principles of the second wave. I think transactivism is going to make a lot of women angry and this is already happening. Transgenderism has caused many women who have nothing to do with second wave feminism to understand women are a sex class and are dispossessed precisely because they belong to the sex class female.

It doesn't matter who is sleeping with whom, daim.

The point is that there is such a thing as a lesbian community, a lesbian scene - and it's not possible to have that with males present because it changes the dynamic.

It's not hard to grasp, really.

The thing is that it shouldn't be up to an adult male person to decide whether or not it's OK for them to be around other people's naked female children

Exactly. And the fact that they feel that's not a problem demonstrates an utter lack of empathy.

If you knew that it made women uncomfortable, would you stop, NatLuc?

Or would you carry on?

The thing is that it shouldn't be up to an adult male person to decide whether or not it's OK for them to be around other people's naked female children.

Personally I don't like that some parents think it is acceptable to undress their children in front of any adults, male or female, other than the children's family.

Feminism means equality of the sexes, it's not about excluding anyone

That's 3rd wave neoliberal claptrap.

Feminism is about FEMALE liberation. It's in the name for chrissakes.

How are young lesbians meant to figure out their sexuality when they're constantly having to negotiate boundaries with born males?

It's gaslighting.

The thing is that it shouldn't be up to an adult male person to decide whether or not it's OK for them to be around other people's naked female children.

So it seems like the time span where it was possible for lesbians to have the space, ability and freedom from harrassment to connect with other lesbians in penis free zones only lasted for about 20 years.

Much progressive.

I know the conversation has moved on now but in response to the original post, according to lesbian friends of mine it's only men who buy DIVA now.
You know, those men who think they're lesbians.
FFS

I find the use of the word "girls" by some transgender males incredibly bizarre.

Totally.

And in response to the person with male genitalia being absolutely FINE in changing rooms with young naked girls...in the words of Mandy Rice Davies he would say that wouldn't he.

This is not about individuals. For an individual to say ‘well do you think I’m unsafe? That’s offensive to me, I demand in’ is not the point. The point is that we have sex segregated spaces because women and children as a class are vulnerable to men as a class.

This
This
This
This
This

I know lots of nice, safe men. I still want some spaces to be segregated for my comfort and privacy.

As a 'straight' woman, i exclude women from my 'dating pool' - does this make me homophobic? I also wouldnt 'date' a man who believes he is a woman , does this make me transphobic as well as homophobic? If a transwoman 'lesbian' only 'dates' biological women are they then homophobic (towards men)?? I am assuming that if one believes sex can be changed, then the follow on logic from that is that sexual orientation is a smaller leap.

Natluc, you need to adjust that moral compass. Or get a new one, if it's faulty.

Narcissists are incapable of seeing anyone but themselves.

NatLuc - Can you really not see why there would be a problem male bodied people in spaces where girls are getting undressed? Seriously?

If people could be trusted to communicate and respond this way, there’s obviously less of a problem.

Yes. This is like the problem with the sex-based exemptions in the Equality Act. If anywhere actually tries to make use of them, they get dragged through the mud on social media & threatened with legal action.

This isn't about value judgements or insulting people. It's about simply recognising that sometimes we segregate by sex. I have male friends & family I'm very close to but I'd still not share a changing room or bedroom with them because they're male.

Also ditto my male friends, cousins, etc. Still not OK for them to be in spaces where random women and girls are undressing. Not even the ones who're about as macho as a not very macho thing.

Both my DH and my husband are lovely people who would never harm a child. That doesn't mean it would be OK for them to walk into spaces where little girls are changing into their swimsuits, much less get their own cocks out in those spaces.

There is no such thing as a lesbian with a penis, Prawn! (good to see you at Inconvenient Women, by the way).