Diva magazine is trans inclusive

"I doubt there's a jury in the UK who would convict a parent of a hate crime if they reacted badly towards you once they spotted you in there amongst their young daughters, regardless of whatever assurances your woke friends may give you."

You are seriously saying that someone in a place who is not committing any crime and going about there lawful business as the right to be attacked and that no jury in the UK would find the person guilty of assaulting them? Do you think we live in the deep south of America in the 1950s or. Something.

it is inappropriate for me to use the mens facilities (nor would I feel safe..)

Right, this is the crux of it. why do you not feel safe?

Because...?

Nat, you have told us you have a penis. Your girlfriend is therefore, by definition, not a lesbian. However sweet and reassuring her speech may be in the context of your private times, they don't change the meaning of words.

You say you don't feel safe in the men's but fail to understand that if males - regardless of identity - are accessing women only spaces you make them single sex no more and open the door to the men you fear. Even if every MtF were a saint, by intruding into women only spaces they facilitate sexual predators and remove the layer of protection such spaces traditionally offer to women and girls.

Quick genuine question how many penis's have you seen in a female changing room? I'm not dismissing anyone who as genuinely had to face this or had something happen to them in these spaces from men, but more in the I was in a changing room and there was this trans woman in there getting changed and I saw a penis. It is often said but no one I have read as actually said it happened to them or that they have been in a changing room with a trans woman even. I would be interested in. Peoples experience of this in the. Real. World.

noted that Nat uses a private cubicle which sounds reasonable enough.

Private cubicles are generally contained within larger communal changing areas. It's not just that I don't want to have to look at penises and scrotums while I'm getting changed. I don't want people with penises and scrotums within the female changing rooms while my daughter or I are getting changed there.

It is such a deeply male attitude to talk about being 'entitled' to access those spaces, as you have repeatedly on this thread daim . Whatever your actual sex, gender, sexuality, whatever, it is an incredibly arrogant and masculine way to treat people. There is a horrible triumphalism and a real 'fuck you' tone to your posts (not there in NatLuc 's - they just seem completely oblivious to the impact of their actions on women and girls).

So NatLuc - why don't you seem to be concerned that your use of the ladies loo makes it inaccessible for many actual women and girls? Why do your requirements trump theirs? Where are they supposed to go?

I do think that transwomen in the process of getting their GRC have a difficult time regarding which facilities to use. Perhaps "the system" has been a bit lazy in using toilets and changing rooms as a proxy for "living as a woman", without thinking through the consequences for anyone. And, of course, when the numbers of men wanting to transition were much lower, the impact on women's spaces was much lower

it is inappropriate for me to use the mens facilities (nor would I feel safe..)

It's inappropriate to use the women's
It makes women and girls feel unsafe
Try to care or pretend to care at least

nor would I feel safe due to the attention I would attract

Well, I don't feel safe for me or my daughter having someone with a male body in the changing rooms with us. Why do your wishes and feelings outweigh ours?

NatLuc

Can you show me where it says you have to use the facilities as part of the process? It's the second time I've heard it, and I would have thought it was quite a pivotal point.

With regards to what has changed - well yes.. things are different. For one thing I have breasts, feminine figure and face. So it is inappropriate for me to use the mens facilities (nor would I feel safe due to the attention I would attract). And I do not feel wholly comfortable divulging this next piece of information on a forum where a few people know me in real life; but then there is the fact that the hormones have left me dysfunctional down there. So no.. I do not pose the same threat as a male

Again, the argument that you don't feel safe in the men's, so women need to be made unsafe, holds no water. It's an illogical, selfish argument.

Because in terms of threat, to women and girls, you pose exactly the same perceived threat as any other biological male.

Your knowledge of your motives doesn't mean anything.

I, quite genuinely, find the lack of understanding about women's lived experience almost the most depressing part of this whole thing.

It's so frustrating.

"expected to have used female facilities as a show of commitment to transition"

OT, but I always wondered - as a wheelchair user - how this works for someone who has to use disabled facilities. Especially if they have a unisex name (as I do as well) so no need to change that.

Hey @TimeLady, If I am honest I was never in a position before hormones where I would have used the women's changing facilities. I started hormones about 3.5 months before I socially transitioned so I was still very much presenting as a man (though more androgynous). So of course I would not have used the ladies changing rooms.

With regards to what has changed - well yes.. things are different. For one thing I have breasts, feminine figure and face. So it is inappropriate for me to use the mens facilities (nor would I feel safe due to the attention I would attract). And I do not feel wholly comfortable divulging this next piece of information on a forum where a few people know me in real life; but then there is the fact that the hormones have left me dysfunctional down there. So no.. I do not pose the same threat as a male bodied person I do not think. I only bring it up in the interest of replying to your message fully. I apologise if it was too much? Not that I ever was but contrary to certain poster's opinion of my response to spontaneous of course I can see that certain people class me as a threat.

Not to mention that in order to fulfill my requirements to attain my GRC in about a year and a third I am expected to have used female facilities as a show of commitment to transition.

I have said in other threads regarding this topic that I would use a cubicle within the facilities. There would be no swinging around of anything (not you that brought this up I know) as certain users seem to imagine.

The question that was asked was should 'I' be around children. I answered as such. I basically raised my sister who is 12 years younger than me, so it is probably this that is framing most of my opinion regarding this given that I have had such a parental role with her.

Thank you for your comment about you thinking I am a genuine poster, It actually means a lot that there are GC (I am assuming you are, apologies if not) posters here that do think this. I don't think I am a bad person, I might have an opinion that is unpopular but who doesn't?
--

Start of general message not at particular posters:

As for it being bizarre for a trans woman to refer to a potential girlfriend as a girl? I find it bizarre that this is being picked at. I am 28.. It is nothing to do with infantising (gross) a potential partner it is simply a case of the language that is appropriate for the situation..

Also FYI, I brought the topic and various opinions within this thread up with the girl I dated last night and when I said to her that posters had said she was not a lesbian/gay because she was attracted and interested in me her response was 'that is bullshit, you are a girl to me, that is how I see you and it is all I have ever known you as'. But you know.. invalidate her orientation, that is fine.

Pratchet yes! I remember the trendy bisexual thing in the 90s. It was a bit silly but it was quite freeing, I remember a bit of experimentation going on (also the influence of E which would make you get off with ANYBODY ). I had one or two experiences with women but I wouldn't dream of calling myself bisexual; it would seem like encroaching on territory that wasn't mine. And queer, wtf.. that seems to mean absolutely nothing now. I can't get over the cheek of straight women calling themselves queer, with no right whatsoever to the word.

identify as bisexual who aren’t at all. They just want to kiss a girl, or “find them beautiful”. They’re better described as bicurious

Things like ally Mcbeal would mention this sort of thing. Bits of dialogue like 'so my husband woke me up this morning right in the middle of my favourite lesbian fantasy dream'

It was very nineties

someone who identifies as queer I wouldn’t even give the time of day to

Amen to that
Can you imagine how dull

One woman broke ranks to say yes because she is a bisexual woman who is not attracted to people who have vaginas and would not have sex with someone who had a vagina

🤔

Also PMSL.

But it has been an issue for a while that some women identify as bisexual who aren’t at all. They just want to kiss a girl, or “find them beautiful”. They’re better described as bicurious. Which is fine, but a different thing, and not a sexuality.

It’s probably bigoted, but someone who identifies as queer I wouldn’t even give the time of day to. Surprisingly often they’re straight people appropriating a label to be cool.

I think some of this has come about because about 5 years ago there were starting to be muttering by some that being bisexual was transphobic. Pansexual was the way to go. And I think a reasonable number of young, earnest bisexuals re-identified. Freeing up space for “new” bisexuals i.e. women dating men who identify as women, but who have male bits. And it’s looking a bit too late to reclaim it. Arielle Scarcella had a video asking bi women to explain what it meant to them and it was a lot of “all genders”, “two is my gender, and other genders”.

Oh for actual fucks sake 🙄

Oh, natluc. Presumably you understood why it was unacceptable for you to share a changing room with very young girls before you started taking hormones? You may well be presenting differently in terms of hair, clothes and makeup now, but nothing else has really changed, has it?

You pose the same potential threat as you did before, the same as any male-bodied man in that situation, benevolent or not. I'm actually quite taken aback that you can't see that, as you strike me as one of the genuine trans posters, and a nice kind one at that.

One woman broke ranks to say yes because she is a bisexual woman who is not attracted to people who have vaginas and would not have sex with someone who had a vagina.

I hope it isn't strike-worthy to say PMSL.

PMSL!

What on earth is going through people's minds?

What the heck? They're bisexual, but only sleep with penises? I know Humpty Dumpty gets wheeled out a lot with all this gubbins, but words mean things.

It's the epitome of what has gone wrong with the admirable LGB movement. It's become so damned trendy that people are helping themselves to the 'cool' labels and all the rainbow gear and claiming oppression they don't actually face.