Diva magazine is trans inclusive

One woman broke ranks to say yes because she is a bisexual woman who is not attracted to people who have vaginas and would not have sex with someone who had a vagina.

At the risk of being repetitive, I think I may need a pomo to English translation on this one.

It’s probably bigoted, but someone who identifies as queer I wouldn’t even give the time of day to.

To a certain extent it's generational, but if I was single again I'd use this as a filtering mechanism too and it would work out well since those who almost all describe themselves like that are too young for me anyway. Anyone within 15 years of my age describing themselves that way is generally going to be insufferable.

We don't have communal showers, we have shower cubicles and an open changing area. The person was changing in the communal area. I personally wouldn't be naked in that area even with all female colleagues, but I wouldn't be offended or afraid if I saw a female body in there wearing less clothing than I personally would choose to wear in that situation. I now wouldn't shower in the cubicles knowing that a male could be in the communal area outside.

Interestingly we have 4 sets of women's loos, 1 on my floor and 3 on the ground. Lucy (nn Lulu) uses all of them, unlike most of us who tend to use the ones nearest to our desk unless popping out of a meeting room or suchlike. But the ones near where I sit are the busiest, due to being the only ones on the floor, and these are the ones Lucy uses the most frequently despite being the furthest away, on a different floor and not near meeting rooms. There are also 3 fully self contained accessible cubicles on each floor.

Pratchet yes it is. Very upsetting and rage inducing.

Natural that is truly fucking appalling

I've done things that I know have had a negative impact on other people, either because I've been entitled to do so (for example, as DD is adopted she gets priority schools admissions over someone who lives next door to the school and has three siblings already in the school) or because I've been encouraged to do so (going to the front of the very long immigration queue because I had DC with me, even though mine are both old enough now that we don't really need the same consideration as those travelling with toddlers and very young children need). On a small number of occasions I've done something that I shouldn't and hoped fervently that it didn't cause problems for someone else (like taking a desperate small child into the disabled loos because they were the closest).

Each time I've felt a bit guilty, and acknowledge that my actions have an impact on others. Even if everyone (or most people, anyway) would agree that what I did was OK / they have done similar / they don't mind / it's OK as a one-off but don't make a habit of it.

But maybe that's just my female socialisation kicking in - I ought to check whether DH feels the same as me in these sorts of situations.

Quick genuine question how many penis's have you seen in a female changing room? I'm not dismissing anyone who as genuinely had to face this or had something happen to them in these spaces from men, but more in the I was in a changing room and there was this trans woman in there getting changed and I saw a penis

I have encountered this in the women's change/shower facilities at work. The actual cock. No women now use the facilities after cycling in or running at lunch time. We also have to put up with smelly man shits and piss on the lavatory seats. It's unacceptable.

Any decent person raised as a male would know this is unacceptable. Which leaves you to question the ethics of those who dont

Absolutely. As these activists don't give a shit. They'll just take what they want. They don't care about women. Because they're not women. They're men, who want to go where the fuck they like, screw how women feel about that. Morally dubious and certainly not decent.

you. Are wanting to ban trans woman from spaces while ironically including trans men in them that look like. Men so why can a man not just identify as a trans man and access woman's spaces equally

Trans men are not generally a threat to males, being mostly smaller and not socialised to be violent. I'd be ok with male toilets as gender neutral and female as single sex but there may well be some males who don't like that - it doesn't affect me so how would I know?

Well just to reassure you TimeLady in nearly two decades of practising law I have yet to see anyone hauled before a jury for making a verbal complaint. That is plain scaremongering.

There is a gigantic chasm between making a complaint and "reacting badly" enough to end up in a Crown Court explaining yourself to a jury.

Any decent person raised as a male would know this is unacceptable. Which leaves you to question the ethics of those who dont.

risk inciting violence against trans women who do enter things like changing rooms.

Violence? I read that post as someone having a stern word and asking the person to leave.

But again, turningvthis back on women and not answering the questions:

why are you afraid of using the men’s?
why can’t you just call the police like you expect women to if you’re uncomfortable?
why is the answer to Male violence allowing men in the ladies.

Answers to these questions would be interesting

I'm not biting, Snappity.

Or are we saying that anyone with an attraction to woman should not be around little girls?

How surprising* - a homophobic statement in support of trans entitlement to women's spaces.

• not surprising at all

Oh for goodness sake, what an over reaction.

No. You said no jury would convict people for what they did. That means you envisaged them taking some sort of criminal action against the trans woman, and indeed portrayed that criminal act as something most people would see as reasonable.

Do police respond more quickly when women report an assault in a toilet than when trans people report an assault in a toilet? Is it 5 minutes for women but 30 minutes for trans people?

Asking for a friend.

Bespins: women and girls are not your human shield. Stop appropriating us in that way. Resolve the problem without using us as human shields.

I’ve not seen a penis in the changing rooms because the time I saw a man in the ladies changing room, I left immediately and haven’t gone back. So, yeah, no penises were seen.

I also didn’t get my workout, but hey ho, what do I matter?

This is absolutely key. Any male person who uses a women's facility has to accept that their use of the facility will mean that they have prevented some women from using that women's facility. Justify it however you like, but a first step would be accepting that this happens and taking full responsibility for it.

Oh for goodness sake, what an over reaction. By 'reacted badly', I meant accusing the person of voyeurism or flashing, not suggesting that mothers or grannies in the changing rooms would beat the person up. We're talking female behaviour here, not male violence. It'd be an instinctive reaction in most cases - our innate desire to protect little children runs deep. But in this day and age, I can easily see the mother or grannie being hailed before the court accused of a hate crime. And I don't believe a jury would convict.

I'm not sure entirely what you mean by "reacted badly" but that is pretty sinister.

I have reported it.

But there's a fundamental issue here that all these posts saying it isn't safe for a trans woman to be in female spaces risk inciting violence against trans women who do enter things like changing rooms. I think we have just seen how on the back of such horrid posts about trans women being a safety risk, someone posts something sinister. What worries me is that rather than a sister post, it could so easily turn into aggression and violence against trans women.

Right you promise we can go back to talking about diva so I will answer your questions you might not agree. With my reply are we all OK with that.

why don’t you feel safe in the mens
Because I'm not a man I'm a trans woman and I'm often seen as every other woman and therefore at risk of assault and sexual assault in those spaces

if women can just call the police who will instantly arrive and remove any man being an issue why can’t you do that too?
Having called the police and waited the 20 to 30 minutes it took to respond what would you like anyone to do. Wait there and get. Assaulted more.

why, if you feel unsafe in the men’s, is the answer to allow all men into the ladies?
Again this is an assumption that all men will. Want to id as woman to access toilets some men no doubt will do that just as they will die in partition. Walls to. Spy on woman or dress. Up. As janitors and yes I do think that this is something we're we need discussion but you are not wanting that you. Are wanting to ban trans woman from spaces while ironically including trans men in them that look like. Men so why can a man not just identify as a trans man and access woman's spaces equally

Yes we can certainly go back to talking about DIVA but first I’d like an answer to my questions if at all possible;

why don’t you feel safe in the mens
if women can just call the police who will instantly arrive and remove any man being an issue why can’t you do that too?
why, if you feel unsafe in the men’s, is the answer to allow all men into the ladies?

These are fairly important questions. As we are exhorted to just call the police, and told that men in women’s spaces are no problem. And yet here we have posters telling us the exact opposite is why they want to use the women’s ...

TellsEveryoneRealFacts the safety of all. People is everyone's problem no one as the right to commit an offence against someone full. Stop when people are not committing an offence and have no intention of doing so that is a different matter