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Original poster

What does the David Reimer case have to say about the concept of gender identity?

39 replies

Namechange4thispost · 26/06/2018 07:39

So much in this tragic case to discuss.
articles.latimes.com/2004/may/13/local/me-reimer13

OP posts:
Serfisafleur · 26/06/2018 11:29

*go the way

Serfisafleur · 26/06/2018 11:28

Doctors who prescribe puberty blockers and certain charities that promote them for gender non-conforming children will eventually got the way of John Money. To be viewed in horror.

dangermouseisace · 26/06/2018 11:28

There’s a lot of info out there about this case. What that boy went through was horrific and unethical. Children are not there to be experimental guinea pigs.

This quote from the Guardian about the case:

For Lynne Segal, the story of the experiment does not settle the nature/nurture debate one way or the other - her view, widely shared today, is that the dichotomy is false - but it shows the perils of psychologists trying to prove too much through research. "It's far too simplistic, and far too interventionist, this idea that we can control and model and shape people to prove one thing or another.”

CertainHalfDesertedStreets · 26/06/2018 11:25

Aren't screenshots lovely things? To post to twitter n'stuff.

Serfisafleur · 26/06/2018 11:25

John Money tried to make David "into a girl" by role-playing sex positions "as a girl" when David was a child.
I think this case is best laid to rest as massive malpractice gone horribly wrong.

MaidOfStars · 26/06/2018 11:20

His case demonstrates that a sense of biological sex is innate and no amount of gender pretend can overcome that.

Having said that, it’s anecdotal. He was subject to an inordinate amount of cruelty and psychological experimentation, and there should have been prosecutions. We can’t extrapolate.

BettyDuMonde · 26/06/2018 11:17

I think the thing that was actually immutable for David, was his inborn sense of his own biological sex.

chaoticgood · 26/06/2018 11:13

One of the sentences that jumped out at me was:"What went unreported until decades later, however, was that Money's experiment actually proved the opposite -- the immutability of one's inborn sense of gender."

I can't quite make sense of this.

That's because it's obvious bollocks. No matter what the facts of the case were, it was one single case and could not possibly prove anything, "actually" or otherwise.

Original poster
Namechange4thispost · 26/06/2018 08:09

One of the sentences that jumped out at me was:"What went unreported until decades later, however, was that Money's experiment actually proved the opposite -- the immutability of one's inborn sense of gender."

I can't quite make sense of this.

OP posts:
geekaMaxima · 26/06/2018 08:07

One of the biggest fictions about David Reimer's life was that he was "raised as a girl". No, he wasn't. He had an extraordinarily abusive childhood that bears no resemblance to how any child (girl or boy) is normally raised. It had tragic consequences.

Let the poor man alone and allow him the dignity in death that he was denied in life. Thanks

geekaMaxima · 26/06/2018 08:03

Yy what Quentin said.

Original poster
Namechange4thispost · 26/06/2018 08:03

I'm certainly not intending to be disrespectful. I'd not come across this story before. Neither am I trying to make an argument in either direction. But there is much in that 2004 obituary (which may not all be correct of course) about 'sex roles' and the views of prominent feminists like Kate Millet which I thought was worthy of discussion.

OP posts:
ballsballsballs · 26/06/2018 08:02

Quentin put my thoughts very eloquently.

The doctor in this case should have gone to jail.

QuentinSummers · 26/06/2018 07:48

I don't think it's relevant at all.
Following a botched circumcision, the poor boy was simultaneously subjected to an unethical medical/psychological experiment and also childhood abuse, resulting in his suicide.
It is absolutely tragic and I think it would be far more respectful to him and his life not to use it as an argument for/against gender identity.