Transgender people can be turned away from female only spaces government says

This is plain out and out bullying of women who have had to undergo surgery. Along with minimising what they have gone through, and (apparently) enjoying dismissing their hurt

I'm not reporting though.

Backlash begins, apologies if already posted
www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/transgender-people-will-not-have-right-to-use-women-only-spaces-government-confirms_uk_5b30adf0e4b00295f15e751e

Women don't generally need to dialate their vagina apart from in cases where they have had cancer etc. All transwomen who have gone through full surgery have to dialate the wound that they have had created however in order to keep it open, to appear like a vagina. This wound however is not a vagina and a vagina is not a wound. Really quite different. One being biologically female. The other, not.

Snappity: this doesn't feel like a civil approach from you. It looks like gloating.

"However none of the councils involved, nor the children’s commissioner, nor Education Scotland have carried out an equality impact assessment to ensure the rights and wellbeing of other pupils are unaffected. This means the impact other students has not been taken into account

The question that needs to be asked to all these bodies is why not?

Why was an impact assessment not done? Was this oversight, or deliberate?

Vaginoplasty can only occur if there is a vagina there in the first place. A neovagina is not a vagina.

Snappity, are you seriously going to argue this? That you will use an inaccurate term that upsets me - as a woman who has been through it - when I've given you an accurate alternative?

Crack on, shows everyone the kind of person you are.

What's that saying? "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance."

This statement from government spells out the current status quo, and reiterates the fact that proportionate sex-based exemptions to the GRA exist. But now that government has spelled this out, we can expect lobby groups to go on the attack, so we mustn't drop our guard.

Precisely. And the outcomes of particular types of surgery have nothing whatsoever to do with it.

Is Stonewall's director of campaigns seriously called Mr Twocock?

Oh dear. That must take some living up to.

I agree, although, in the interests of fairness, I will still, occasionally, encourage transactivists to put their point across.

As Queen of FWR my dear, you can do whatever the fuck you want, whenever the fuck you want.

@BeyondFemaleElitist

Nope. Showing that other terms are sometimes used doesn't show that the term vaginoplasty is wrong.

Yy datun. Snowballing :)

But now that government has spelled this out, we can expect lobby groups to go on the attack, so we mustn't drop our guard.

Yes, and now they can be the subject of radio phones ins and panel discussions.

It's the next level of understanding, that people will be able to start discussing. In public.

Your "Lukewarm" point is also well made, Lang.

What's that saying? "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance."

This statement from government spells out the current status quo, and reiterates the fact that proportionate sex-based exemptions to the GRA exist. But now that government has spelled this out, we can expect lobby groups to go on the attack, so we mustn't drop our guard.

Like I said a few posts back, we need to stick to the point in hand which is that this is a useful acknowledgement from government that for the time being single sex exemptions will be retained where they are necessary and proportionate.

Absolutely Fermats. It is of course incredibly difficult not to challenge the abhorrence, but we must stay focused and continue our conversation.

foxyliz there's no such thing as a male cow. A cow is an adult bovine female.

We need to spread the message and keep things on topic. Things are looking up!

I agree, although, in the interests of fairness, I will still, occasionally, encourage transactivists to put their point across.

BeyondFemaleElitist

I also had a vaginoplasty for an almost third degree tear, and removal of internal cysts due to tonnes of life saving stitches. It's ridiculous that they equate the two.

Like I said a few posts back, we need to stick to the point in hand which is that this is a useful acknowledgement from government that for the time being single sex exemptions will be retained where they are necessary and proportionate.

Exactly. And while we should remember that it's fairly lukewarm, it has been reported as such by most of the main outlets now. This is progress. The Grauniad would have completely ignored it a year ago.

Nope.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26096123
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8988784
www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2213307017300308

Using the word "vaginoplasty" straight after I politely request that you don't - as it is inaccurate anyway - is rather rude.

How, when it is the medically appropriate term?
marcibowers.com/mtf/mtf-services/grs/

Agree about the tendancy of councils to rewrite the law, I wonder where they got the idea to do that from? One council we know it was deliberate.

It's another bad aspect of the neoliberal way of outsourcing everything. Councils bring in some external lobby group to do everything for them and some of those groups are not up to the job and provide wrong or partisan advice - not just about women's rights; about everything. A public service ethos has disappeared from the public sector - it's now just about paying someone to tick your boxes for you and not noticing or caring when they've ticked the wrong ones.

I vow to not derail the rest of this thread.

Thank you sardines

There is no such thing as an appropriate term with regard to this. Any public body failing to apply the correct characteristics in EqA is acting unlawfully.

I disagree. The choice of word - sex or gender - isn't going to determine a case. What matters is the meaning of the word.