Transgender people can be turned away from female only spaces government says

In a moment of absent-mindedness, I visited The Guardian web site and the article there said basically the same thing. The Guardian did mention Amy Desir's petition, which has got 12,000 signatures to date. There was the obligatory whiny quote from a Stonewall representative who rejoices in the surname of Twocock. Twocock complained about how this was "toxic".

Too bad, twocock; so sad.

If we are told that sex-based exemptions are protected as they are, but we are also told that people can self-id for a GRC, then the protections offered by partial sex-based exemptions, where a service is offered to legally-women only, will be reduced to the point of being useless. This govt statement doesn't reassure me at all.

Figuring out how to get impact assessments done is a good idea.

a vagina contains Skene's glands, Bartholin's glands, and a hymen. Vaginal epithelium is not keratinised, the skin of the penis is. The vagina ends with a cervix unless there is a DSD or the cervix has been surgically removed. A transwoman's surgical construction has none of those things. An inverted glans is not a cervix. An inverted penis or piece of bowel is not a vagina.

No. They are glands etc located near the vagina but are not part of the vagina.

I have never studied keratinisation so I can't comment in detail but my understanding is that only the prepuce is keratinised and, anyway, often penile skin is not used. It is, however, possibly an academic distinction as skin types have a habit of re-mapping themselves following vaginoplasty but the effect has not been studied.

Yes, and they'll all think self id isn't a problem because of it

Women with any sense reading TwoCocks attitude in Huffington post will go straight to the linked petition.

To be honest Pratchet, King Tut could have told them to do it, I really don't care. Imagine all the people who read this over the weekend who had no idea. Hundreds if not thousands of people will have learned about this issue in a simple way.

I mean, I hope it will backfire. But it's another tactic to get self ID through.

They aren't doing it for us Sponty. They've been briefed by the transadvocate Equalities people I am absolutely sure.

How can we follow up on the impact assessments not being done?

I want to know WHY they were not done.
Then I want them done. By impartial experts
Then I want the results published

How do we do this?

The fact that the three amigos are using cervical cancer to prove that they are women is disgusting but not surprising.

Nobody has done that here.

I'm relieved that mainstream media are now reporting this. For a long time we were just seen as feminists being nasty. By reporting this as widely as is now happening is taking the whole issue into living rooms and offices all over the country.

Upthread, someone said the snowball effect, that's exactly what it is and what we need.

@Snappity, a vagina contains Skene's glands, Bartholin's glands, and a hymen. Vaginal epithelium is not keratinised, the skin of the penis is. The vagina ends with a cervix unless there is a DSD or the cervix has been surgically removed. A transwoman's surgical construction has none of those things. An inverted glans is not a cervix. An inverted penis or piece of bowel is not a vagina.

The fact that the three amigos are using cervical cancer to prove that they are women is disgusting but not surprising. They've done it with beat cancer in the past (not these posters AFAIK but other tras on Twitter) claiming that women with double mastectomies were like transmen but obviously transmen were in life or death situations and needed surgery meanwhile for women with breast cancer it was just a choice and not remotely comparable to the trauma experienced by transmen

Disgusting pov and behavior

I just wanted to reassure the GC feminists posting on here that it's patently obvious that the points being made by Meet et al clearly do not stand up to scrutiny and are not worthy of even a primary school debate.

Exactly. Stop letting threads be deraoledvturning yousrelves inside out trying to argue black is white. All the bloody time. They are laughing as the see you frantically jigging about at the end of their strings. Stop it.

Lots of women and girls are intimidated by men in general.

I think probably it'll be a case of turn round and leave, and then stand around outside wondering what if anything to do.

Much of intimindating / unpleasant / creepy behaviour from men doesn't cross the line into illegality and even when it does most of the time women / girls don't really feel able to do much.

There is also the fact that so many men just like fucking with / upsetting women and girls generally, this is a power trip that is asking for abuse, being able to go where they are and then act like dicks til they give up and leave.

Yes. I guess.

We don't want to start initiatives into women sex offenders if that's not what's happening as it's a waste of time and money.

Exactly what impact assessments are for!

Lang: pressuring - can we force them by law?

I imagine in many cases, yes. We can force impact assessments and make the results public - and I think that might well force changes because none of them will want to say out loud "Well, we don't give a fuck about women".

We need test cases and crowdfunding.

Sardines agree. So the Equality Act will stay? Well, it's not protecting us now. I want more. I want the Equality Act amended so that it's a duty, not a right, of organisations to retain single sex provision.

Putting the onus on women and girls to challenge dodgy men is a bad idea.

We all know how men can get when women / girls question or challenge or disagree / say no to them.

kind of coincidental that a story that will lull people into a false sense of security ahead of the GRA is the first one to get so many outlets picking up on it

Pratchet yes I'm not confident either.

The situaitons with hosteling, swim england, hampstead ponds etc etc plus things like sports (non professional) have already moved to self iD and there's nothing in the law I think to stop that?

I think schools are supposed to give single sex changing so there might be something there.

If course any private company (shops etc) can do what they like.

Also things like stats - this doesn't help. How many women convicted of rape in england and wales last year? And a massive increase in sex crimes committed by women overall - and no way to tell whether this is driven by women or transwomen. It's very important to know what is going on in order to think about ways to address it. IF women are sex offending at higher rates then this is a change and it's important to know and therefore to understand why / what's going on and see if it can be addressed. If it's transwomen then essentailly a small number of the large number of sex offenders are lost from the male figures (probably not enough to dent) and onto the women's (numbers are v small so even a few extra will make a big difference).

We don't want to start initiatives into women sex offenders if that's not what's happening as it's a waste of time and money.

This sort of stuff.

None of what they have said helps with this stuff.

I can't envisage any circumstances in which it would be lawful to exclude from a female space a trans woman with a female birth certificate and who has had vaginoplasty.

Rape trauma group therapy, unless the trans woman passes very very well, to protect the theraputic environment for other victims in therapy.

Lang: pressuring - can we force them by law?