Transgender people can be turned away from female only spaces government says

AngryAttackKittens
I can smell men too. Some men smell good to me, some smell absolutely awful in a way that women never do (which I assume is part pheremones indicating incompatibility, ie don't make babies with this person and part men on average being less good about personal hygiene than women), but none of them smell like women.
Yep, supersmeller here too. DH was almost chosen by smell
I can tell which oil my mum had in the bath the night before when i meet her cat (who doesnt get in the bath!) & which aftershave DH co worker has worn when DH gets home (i make the poor man change a lot!)

I'd just like to point out that nothing has really changed. Media outlets are only picking up on this now for something that has been there since 2010 and it is done on a case by case basis, not a blanket "ban" as so many here seem to be wishing for.

We're not saying the facts on the ground have changed. We're saying the media framing of the facts on the ground has changed and that this is a good thing because media framing is a precursor for changing public opinion and/or awareness.

It is possible to smell men. There’s a male hormone used in olfactory experiments to test how good your sense of smell is and to see how it triggers the olfactory patch.

They dilute it down in mineral oil then shove an electrode on your olfactory patch (this is extremely unpleasant but it’s the kind of thing PhD students do for an easy twenty quid as a volunteer..) and see what dilution you can detect it at.

It’s entirely possible to smell males. Some people can even smell specific illnesses. Our sense of smell varies massively between individuals- some people are almost smell blind whereas other can detect things with great sensitivity.

I can smell men too. Some men smell good to me, some smell absolutely awful in a way that women never do (which I assume is part pheremones indicating incompatibility, ie don't make babies with this person and part men on average being less good about personal hygiene than women), but none of them smell like women.

I'd just like to point out that nothing has really changed.

Thing is, perception is changing, more people are thinking critically about what is means to be male/female and why we have single-sex spaces.

I think the biggest change in perception is that people are realizing that the law doesn’t just cover a small number of body dysmorphic people who have had bottom surgery but can also include anyone who feels like the opposite sex in their head/soul but makes no changes to their physical body.

Some autogynephilic male, just like Clymer, is going to have a narcissistic tantrum and the women's shelter is going to have to go to court, pay out of the teeth to defend themselves.

Already happened

www.feministcurrent.com/2012/05/14/rape-relief-v-nixon-transphobia-and-the-value-of-women-only-space-an-interview-with-lee-lakeman/

So true mancheeze. They weren't happy with the Gender reassignmemt regulations 1999, weren't happy with the Gender Recognition Act, aren't happy with the cultural acceptance of Self Identification and aren't happy with the Equality Act 2010 exemptions. This has been planned for decades. They will never let the Equality Act lie. Never. It is under attack already and it is not protecting us now. The idea that it will protect us if self ID is legislated is laughable. The promise that it will be retained is transadvocate PR being dripped into the mainstream at every opportunity.

What's more, we can't compete with the direct access to ministers had by transadvocates who parrot and promote this promise. All we can do is keep campaigning and looking for test cases.

One thing that has changed is that the councils have changed their fraudulent lists of protected characteristics for accurate ones. Certainly made a difference for some women and girls. It will soon make more of a difference.

Anywho... nice to see there are a few media outlets covering this now. It's nearer reaching tipping point every single day

I'd just like to point out that nothing has really changed. Media outlets are only picking up on this now for something that has been there since 2010 and it is done on a case by case basis, not a blanket "ban" as so many here seem to be wishing for.

So many here seem to be interpreting their own version of innacurate media coverage.

Also, getting back on topic,

The GRA was a mistake. It needs repealing.

What do you all think will happen when women's shelters or restaurants decide to keep their sex based spaces? All hell is gonna break loose.

Some autogynephilic male, just like Clymer, is going to have a narcissistic tantrum and the women's shelter is going to have to go to court, pay out of the teeth to defend themselves.

The next steps are all going to have to be carefully planned so that the shelter that DOES say 'no' to a man, gets all the support they need to win the case.

You can't let the narcissists win. You have to put your foot down.

Yes, I would imagine that the people watching are not particular impressed at a poster on a Feminism board wilfully erasing and belittling women's experiences, and then doubling down on that position when called on it.

I know what's being done here. It's called a logical fallacy. Taking the outliers, the women who DO have to dilate, as being representative of women as a whole.

Bottom line is that generally, vaginas don't need to be dilated EVER. Just because a few women, relatively speaking, have to dilate doesn't mean that MEN have vaginas or that they can get one from a surgeon.

Vaginas are specific organs that have a whole structure and function that can NOT be created in a biological male. Men can think that's what they're getting all day, they can bleat all day about it but they DO NOT have a vagina. They have a surgically constructed wound that ALWAYS wants to heal.

Vaginas don't do this.

I can smell males, I don't even need to see them

I thought I was rare but I smell men in a second just walking near them.

Good to know there are others who have this as well.

It's actually more, is this a falsifiable claim. If there is no objective metric then the words 'I am a man' or 'I am a woman' are devoid of any meaning which could be used in legislation.

Except we do know which is which.

Some people are pretending not to know, but really no one is that stupid.

evidence of veracity is necessary

Indeedy

I know the answer to that one Errol! Although I'm not 100% certain it applies in Snappity's case given the illogic demonstrated so far.

Only more complicated...

Some people tell the truth
Some people knowingly lie
Some people genuinely believe they're telling the truth (not liars)but are mistaken (not telling the truth).

I don't think that's a soluble logic puzzle, so evidence of veracity is necessary.

Is this like the logic puzzle with the two guards, one of whom tells the truth and the other who lies and you don't know which is which?

I feel a bit embarrassed on Snappity's behalf actually TBW.

What a tremendous faux pas....

You are embarrassing yourself, Snappity.

current or former possession of Bartholin's glands
Nailed it. We have the new official definition of women

And there you have it. The opposing definition of woman which, in practical terms, is as impossible to check as brain sex. So why not just accept that if you want to know whether someone is a woman, just ask her?

I know littlbrowndog - if that was reference to 'other people's spaces'.

Just keeping within the vague guidance that those who have us under their eye are policing!

But blobbers are just blobbers - everything is the same as everything else, apparently! (Hence why you can't transition from one thing to another if everything means nothing).

(Typing the last sentence made me realise, once again, just where this shit has got us!)

And that we're not taking it :-)

Into our spaces

The blobbers wit the special thingie cyst thing will not pass

Late and tired to the debate on this thread, which seems to have veered, as usual, of original starting point

But if we're having to debate others here on whether people qualify for a sex category on whether or not they've had bits removed/weren't there in the first place, despite owning other indicators that you belong to that sex category (apart from an ephemeral 'feeling') how on earth can you have any sex category?

And if there's no sex segregated spaces and services because you can't define any category....that means there's no specific categories for people to 'transition' into to.

Somehow, I suspect the people fighting hardest to enter other people's spaces wouldn't like this very much. Just one 'human blob space' wouldn't make them happy! Would probably frustrate them! as every, every post highlights how much they want to enter other people's spaces, regardless of safety, dignity, other people's comfort.

"No,sorry, you have no special status, we're all just human blobs"

(This is lighthearted - as always there are spaces and rights some human blobs, who are female, need separate from other human blobs, male, because of history, biology, etc. The reasons for which are in no way lighthearted, sadly).