Posters jumping before they're pushed

But narc rage was always going to be part of the cycle. Narc rage will be at its worst when it suddenly realises it's beginning to lose ground.

YY. The most dangerous time for a woman in an abusive relationship is when she tries to leave.

I'm on the other place but haven't posted yet - the debate's more effective out here, in the open.

Agreed. If the decision has been made to force out critical voices then we're not going to go quietly, and we're going to take as many other women with us as possible. Every thread in which someone is posting outrageous distortions of reality is another opportunity to turn on those lightbulbs over the heads of the undecided.

I'm with AAK.

The debate is moving mainstream, we aren't going to lose this one (hella nasty backlash coming up for various nice inoffensive people who've been quietly going about their business, though, I fear).

MN have let us down, yes. But by doing so they've peaked an awful lot of people, & sunlight is always the best disinfectant.

I'm on the other place but haven't posted yet - the debate's more effective out here, in the open.

A friend of mine was deleted last night for saying essentially that 'men are men'.

I used to post on these issues - went on holiday before all this really kicked off with the Rules, and since I've come back I've found myself half-writing post after post and deleting it.

Not fear of banning - but exhaustion - the tiresome wrestling with sentences and terminology to stick pedantically within obscure guidelines which seem sometimes applied subjectively. It's not just disallowed words - which is horrifying. Not just a matter of 'incivility' to another poster or a group of people - it's now about not being able to speak the truth.

I am finding this more upsetting than I can say. It's so unfair and so terrifying, the way Orwell is being proved right everywhere we look, the gloating on Twitter, the way some posters are able to speak the most arrant, ill-informed, nonsensical bollocks about trans biology and people are either twisting themselves in knots to reply within guidelines or being deleted for pointing out the truth. Bravo you brave women unafraid to act and to speak up. My adult DD and I are determined to do more from now on.

Please, please let me have a link to 'the other place'. I'm feeling quite distressed by all this this morning.

Why would MN care if people leave? Their job will be easier without the Feminism section.

Other parts of MN won't care. Until their DD runs home from a swimming pool or changing room bawling as a bloke was in there wanting a chat.

Or precious DD is gifted at sport but her future career is annihilated by a man presenting as a girl who will run rings round her

Won't happen for some time but that's when they'll care. & MN will be on the wrong side of history, because this bubble of pandering to a few silly, noisesome, troublesome people who will never ever be what they want to be, will burst.

If they really thought they could replace women they'd be out there very loudly proclaiming it. You'd see them on TV, at rallies etc stating their case.

But you won't, because they're silly little monied boys who want to hassle women. & via the internet they can get on with that power trip.

Be honest - how many people in RL do you hear talking about this subject day to day? You won't - it's an internet war and MN as grown people should've stayed out of it

In 10/20 years time 1/2 of these privileged lot will have conveniently forgotten they wanted to be a woman. They won't want rid of male monied privilege. Which is actually tied in with this whole thing. They may make career choices that won't suit being a man in a dress, and not want to scupper their chances

If on wrong side of history then fine if that's the choice - but it's to be hoped there isn't any hypocritical backtracking when MN is hung out to dry by the DM etc readers it does and will continue to attract now.

Suffragettes - those very brave women who fought for women's rights unto death - must be spinning in their graves

There's still plenty of momentum, it's just moving into real life stuff like Man Friday, and organization will probably also happen more in other places now. I suspect MNHQ will regret losing their courage at the last moment over this issue.

I very much think they will come to regret it also. They hung on and hung on and hung on and then, just as the tide is turning, they capitulate to narc rage. But narc rage was always going to be part of the cycle. Narc rage will be at its worst when it suddenly realises it's beginning to lose ground.

I'll say again: the mods desperately need abuse/coercive control training. It's evident they don't have it.

Wise words AAK. One of the reasons that I don't post is that I do not have the patience. I'd have been offed way back. You are all ridiculously brilliant.
We shall overcome this.

It IS a relay for sure

When sarcasm is banned it has to be

Iolol
The people I work with would nod along with that then report me for saying penis lol

There is strategy for dealing with those people being discussed and refined. My suggestion to anyone who they're getting to would be to take a step back and let those of us whose skin they're not getting under handle it. The favor can then be repaid later when the goading has moved on to a different topic that's sensitive for a different set of women. It's a relay!

I know I post rarely but I love the intelligent, articulate women who help me sort out the truth from the carefully constructed lies. May I have a PM for the other place too? Please?

To be fair, people are still free to post in every other way, about every other topic. We can still get support here re DV, conception, bereavement, periods etc. We can still mention female biology and issues. We can in fact completely ignore the GFs, ignore people whose gender confusion is rammed down our throats, and continue to engage with each other in the anonymous way we do disregarding the sex and gender identity of posters.

I think a strategic withdrawal, recovery, refreshment, before returning to the front lines would be quite helpful for a lot of people. I still feel as strongly as ever, and mention my concerns in passing in real life. On MN however, I've temporarily backed away from the hot topic and feel much better for it.

Certain people will continue to behave in a visible, ridiculous way and their behaviour will speak for itself.

Mine spat out a mouthful of coffee the first time I told him that there were people who believe that cocks can be female.

Bless the ballsacks for they shall inherit. I need to deal with my husband about this.

Oh yeah, Pratchet, "this is fucking ridiculous, ffs, how is anyone taking this shit seriously?" is pretty much always on the tip of my tongue. Female penises. Try saying that to someone irl and see what kind of looks they give you.

There can be a sticky called "What Can You Do For Local Penises Today?"

I know it's serious but do you ever have such a flash of WHAT THE FUCK that you find it hard to actually take seriously?

Yes I think "Penis Rights" is the more inclusive term. Like "Anyone with a Cervix".

Penis rights. Subheading - Is there anything more important than a penis that nobody's paying attention to?

I see as many anti feminists post on here as I do feminists. It will eventually be renamed men's rights, and you will have the F4J crew joining.

Angry you are soooo right. It's moving into real life and we are losing our real life fear by meeting each other and giving each other courage.

There's still plenty of momentum, it's just moving into real life stuff like Man Friday, and organization will probably also happen more in other places now. I suspect MNHQ will regret losing their courage at the last moment over this issue.

Also - could I have a PM for the other place?

MN will keep going because of all the huns that have joined following the lazy DM journo articles. So true. I recently did a google search on 'appropriate age to let a child watch Love Island' as my DD claims her fellow Y7s watch it. Netmums posters honestly had a more critical stance against it than some of the MN posters.

Mumsnet - lose your most educated, intelligent posters at your peril. Not everything lasts forever. MN already isn't the place it was 7 -14 years ago. Feminism Chat is where I hang out most now my DDs are teenagers, but it brings me to the site and whilst here I inevitably end up on other sections.

I'm a serial name changer and occasional poster, I've definitely noticed the regulars disappearing. It's become a less interesting place to lurk now everyone is holding back on what they want to say, and I think for every GC poster there are hundreds of lurkers thinking the same thing who wouldn't post but would sign petitions and donate money and complain to the BBC etc.
The momentum has gone.