Ministers commit to preserving sex-based exemptions

There aren't many comments there yet. The comment section is a good place to make your point.

I'm not sure this piece does more than reiterate the government response to the petition but it's good to have it covered in a mainstream paper.

The 'case by case' exemption part should be the other way round. The 'Chesterton fence' principle should surely be applied - sex- based exclusions which exist should remain except for any where it can be shown that changing to 'gender'-based (or open to all regardless of sex or gender) is a 'proportionate means of meeting a legitimate aim'.

Stonewall indulging in its usual false slur that 'the current debate questions [trans people's ] very right to exist'. It doesn't. Trans people need support, appropriate medical/counselling help etc, and rights. But not at the expense of women's rights.

This comment from The Times article illustrates my point:

Providers of women-only services [can choose not to] provide services to trans individuals, provided it is objectively justified on a case-by-case basis. The same can be said about toilets, changing rooms or single-sex activities“....

Prove to whom, how and in what circumstances?
There are no relevant forms of identification that are available or required to carried by those who are TG to identify their status. Requests to prove gender based on appearance and any request to prove the presence, or lack of, genetalia, would be fraught with the danger of both embarrassment and subsequent lawsuits.

I'm sorry for the dampener but it looks like a PR exercise to me

Also this part

Providers may exclude trans people from facilities of the sex they identify with, provided it is a proportionate means of meeting a legitimate aim.”

Surely the fact that such spaces are sex segregated in the first place, and the reasons for that..means any space that is sex segregated is 'a proportionate means of meeting a legitimate aim'?

Well done to ManFriday men, seriously.

The statement says the current process for gaining a gender recognition certificate “is not working well for the people it is designed for”, with only 4,850 certificates issued since the Gender Recognition Act came into force in 2004. But the statement adds: “That does not necessarily mean we are proposing self-declaration of gender.”

This though really annoys me. In 2004 it was estimated that 5000 people would get a GRC. So it looks to me like the current system is working exactly as intended? Works for those who actually have sex dysphoria, and keeps out those who just follow different stereotypes (and abusive males who would otherwise exploit the fuck out of it)

Good news in that it signals the government have heard - and thx to Man Friday for their efforts.

But it's not saying women's rights should always trump those identifying as the opposite sex - just that they need not - but still doesn't define a proportionate means of meeting a legitimate aim.. These are weasely words open to interpretation and still leaving the decision with the service provider - whether M&S or a refuge.

advancing the rights of trans people does not have to compromise women’s rights” but doesn't say biological women's needs should always take precedence.

It pledges: “Providers of women-only services [can choose not to] provide services to trans individuals, provided it is objectively justified on a case-by-case basis. The same can be said about toilets, changing rooms or single-sex activities. Providers may exclude trans people from facilities of the sex they identify with, provided it is a proportionate means of meeting a legitimate aim.”

Woffle.

Congratulations to the #ManFriday team. A very British protest, but highly effective at exposing the ludicrousness of the proposals.

Well done to The Times too for not being afraid to report on this.

The comments so far are reassuring - mainly about common sense prevailing.

Brilliant news

Hmm, well, woman have certainly put the Government on notice that we ain't going to accept men in our spaces without a very big fight. But this case by case thing is a loooong way from a victory.

Keep the fight going and keep peak transing the unwitting general population.

That sounds more positive. Of course, the devil will be in the detail...