Ministers commit to preserving sex-based exemptions

Damnthatonestakentryanother2

For many posters the issue of single sex provision is nothing about trans people, gender conformity/non conformity or identity. It is about sexed bodies.

I would not want to get undressed or to sleep in a hospital ward, dormitory or prison etc. with a male bodied person. I would be happy to include female bodied trans people in these spaces.

What is so difficult to understand about this?

I think that requiring people to use facilities according to their sexed bodies is wrong. There should be alternative provision made available for trans people who would find this distressing. However, removing single sex provision/ provision according to sexed bodies is not an acceptable solution.

FortunateCookie
How can you post this but then refuse to say that you don’t want it changed?

Oh wait, I know why....
You're completely wrong, but at least you've saved me the trouble of writing a response that you would completely ignore because it wouldn't fit with your prejudices!

FortunateCookie
I take it that’s a no then Damn.
Well spotted! That is exactly what I said!

You aren’t able to say that you don’t have a problem with the single sex exemptions in the Eq A.
I don't have a problem with them, why would I? I am not campaigning to have the EA changed — you are!

^In a major victory, ministers have vowed not to change a law nobody was proposing changing...
How can you post this but then refuse to say that you don’t want it changed?^
But it's not up for change ! ! It is only the anti-trans lobby that is trying to get the rights of trans people removed !

One thing I would like to see changed, though, is that I would like to see it made a criminal offence to incite hatred on the grounds of gender reassignment made a criminal offence. Any reason why anyone here might oppose that?

Just looking again at the comments now. Overwhelmingly sensible and majority gender critical. Progress!

This is why we need main stream media to print these stories. Even articles in the Fail get a reasonable % of sensible GC comments.

Males are a factual threat to children and females they always have been.

Females evolved to use sight, touch, smell and hearing to determine if someone is male because they are a real threat to us.

It’s all window dressIng. There’s no requirement to use the exemptions, and so hospitals, refuges, schools, swimming pool changing rooms etc will continue to use self ID. There’s also no requirement to keep records, so yes the trans woman with stubble who turned up to do a smear test will presumably keep doing so.

The law needs a re write

It really is fantastic to see in the comments that the tide is clearly turning

And what could be more British than that? A credit to their families, they are.

Best of British! We owe them a debt.

Just looking again at the comments now. Overwhelmingly sensible and majority gender critical. Progress!

Someone must remember to ask the Man Friday chaps and Julia Long what they intend to do with all the money they've earned from their lucrative speaking out against the excesses of trans activism gigs. New conservatory maybe?

Kettlepotblackagain
I'm campaigning f to ensure that protections in place for women are upheld. Im campaigning to ensure that predatory males are not able to get even easier access to women.
Then you are wasting your time and energy, by campaigning to protect something that is not under threat!

The focus, hard as this might be to believe, is not trans people.
If only that were true. You and others are mounting a very active campaign to remove existing rights from trans people. If you stopped doing so, then this whole fabricated furore would stop, almost overnight. But that would put an end to all those newspaper columns and chat show invites that provide so much income and personal fame for the privileged few who are spearheading the anti-trans movement.

A significant part of me is very uncomfortable by the added layer to this that some trans people rifle through toilet bins for used tampons, that go to smear tests to see if the nurse thinks their surgical vagina is 'real', that chats on Internet forums about how they went in changing rooms and 'passed'.
And a significant part of me is very uncomfortable that you actually believe this tosh!

You might also want to target the 'figureheads' of your campaigns. The ones that present hyper-sexualised images of themselves and think that being a women is all about dresses and hair and make up. Their desperation for validation is palpable.
I have no idea who you are talking about. I don't know who our "figureheads" are supposed to be, or what "campaigns" you are talking about. I've seen the occasional transperson allowed onto TV programmes or the papers in order to provide some semblance of "balance". And most of those who do get these rare opportunities take much the same care over their presentation as any other woman — i.e. the amount of effort (and success) varies , from person to person.

If there had been one jot of consideration for the needs and fears of women by your 'community' then we must be able to actually have a discussion. But everything is dismissed and trivialised to suit your agenda time and time again so no, no negotiation.
I, and everyone else that I know of who has got involved in this, started off by thinking "maybe there are some real concerns here, and I need for find out more. Gradually, my stance has changed. I see no real needs or fears — I just see fake fears, endlessly repeated, and all reassurances rejected — usually accompanied by torrents of abuse!

I feel very sorry for women and girls who feel frightened by the present situation. But their fears have nothing to do with trans people, and we candy nothing to assuage them. The only people who can do that are the people who set up these bogeymen in the first place — the anti-trans cult leaders. And I'm afraid that at the moment, they are making too much personal currency out of the anti-trans movement to want to pull the plug on it.

I've been deleted as well but I can't remember what I said.

Please tell me where I broke your talk guidelines. I am appalled that I have been deleted.

And all done with good humour, too.

And what could be more British than that? A credit to their families, they are.

"If the GRP are not abiding by the GRA then that is outrageous. Why aren't you out there challenging this instead of wasting your time here having a go at us?"

It will be fixed by Self-ID

For that we need them to realize this nonsense will have an impact on them and their loved ones at some point. Thanks to the lovely Man Friday chaps for helping with that!

Exactly. The size of the Man Friday contribution is absolutely huge. And all done with good humour, too.

Overall, I think this is a good article - THE ARTICLE IS THE TOPIC OF THIS THREAD, BY THE WAY - while it does a bit of pudding over-egging on what's been announced, it does represent a change in media framing.

I do think this is a good positive first step but no more than that. It still means that our spaces can be widely accessed and so the fight continues. Sex segregation should be the default position with people who present as opposite to their birth sex allowed in on a case by case basis

So how is someone who "present opposite to their birth sex" supposed to proceed? If they want to use the loo do they need to send an application in a week in advance with medical evidence? No. Othering people is wrong. People definitely have an human right to know which toilets they can use. Case-by-case isn't just impractical it is really offensive.

For that we need them to realize this nonsense will have an impact on them and their loved ones at some point. Thanks to the lovely Man Friday chaps for helping with that!

"You mean phobe, we a call you phobes!"Yes I know you think I am a phobe, I shrug my shoulders. This is about women's rights.

In the words of Katy Perry

Throw your sticks and your stones,
Throw your bombs and your blows
But you're not gonna break my soul
This is the part of me
That you're never gonna ever take away from me, no

Yep. Lot of people have been wondering when sanity would reassert itself.

Exactly. I know I'm maybe be clutching at a few straws but the overall understanding of what is happening does seem to be increasing. The next step is to get people to feel an obligation to do something.

No I don't have a GRC but I've helped people apply. I've also helped people apply for family visas, indefinite leave to remain, EEA permanent residence, citizenship ... and I've helped loads of people apply for disability benefits and then helped with the almost inevitable mandatory reconsiderations and appeals. I've helped a Windrush client to prove her right to be in the UK. I have a fair insight into the comparative costs and levels of bureaucracy involved in these processes. You don't know you're born. I found your comparison to Windrush particularly disgusting.

How strange that over the past few years of this debate I have never once heard the complaint that the information on the government website is inaccurate. Are GIRES wrong too? And the other trans orgs that produce guidance reiterating what it says on the government site? Why has nobody told them?

How strange that all the objections to the GRA in Miller's report were to do with the conditions as they are written and there is no mention of the GRP going off piste in the way you describe.

If the GRP are not abiding by the GRA then that is outrageous. Why aren't you out there challenging this instead of wasting your time here having a go at us?

FortunateCookie
^Are you able to answer my questions Damn?
Do you think it is anti-trans to retain single sex services and spaces?
Do you have any problem with the single sex exemptions in the EqA?^
No, I can't answer your questions, because they make no sense!
There are no proposals to not "retain single sex services and spaces". There are no proposals to change the Equality Act, full stop — other than those being pushed for by the anti-trans lobby, seeking remove existing rights from trans people (especially transwomen)

The writer is obviously an ally to women but it doesn't sound like much has changed legally. The EA has been around since 2010 and ministers are simply pledging it will not change (if it really is on the TRA hitlist). It still bothers me how services are to judge 'proportionate' and legitimate aim', which has led to confusion.

Also, the tone of the comments is changing. Much less of the I love it when the lefties are eating themselves and more of Thank God, some perspective is being injected.

Yep. Lot of people have been wondering when sanity would reassert itself.

Sorry Lang.

I do think this is a good positive first step but no more than that. It still means that our spaces can be widely accessed and so the fight continues. Sex segregation should be the default position with people who present as opposite to their birth sex allowed in on a case by case basis.