Nope, never happens

I agree with Randomname234 the link in the OP has nothing to do with self ID. And we all know self ID is what this is about.

I think the obsession about men in toilets makes the GC argument look a bit odd. At the moment in order to get a GRC trans women have to prove to a gender recognition panel they have been living as a woman for two years. Therefore they are obliged by law to present as female in all walks of life... including going to the loo.

So trans women have been effectively using self ID for 14 years already in order to obtain their GRC. And there haven't been any problems.

Therefore the obsession that self ID will cause an influx of predatory males identifying as women to enter female toilets seems like bizarre paranoia. Which is a shame because there are some good GC being raised but in the end it all comes back to the toilets.

If the debate was reframed so women understood the exceptions in the Equality Act needed to be strengthened to protect women I would be all over it. I know that's not as exciting or attention grabbing as sharing a link to a bad man doing something bad in a ladies toilet but the EA actually has some bearing on women and girls.

I do not know if the voyeur laws will be repealed, or no,t in order to avoid false accusations against transitioners. I do know that the removal of sex as a protected characteristic and the amendment of the GRA to provide for Self ID will mean that men will be able to do boldly in unisex loos what they previously had to sneak to accomplish in sex segregated spaces.

The other issue which could be a likely unintended consequence of the proposed changes to the GRA Act making self-ID legal is that a woman challenging someone presenting as a man who enters a sex-segregated space could be liable to being prosecuted for hate speech.

So women are in practice silenced because if we challenge the presence of a person who looks like a man in our sex-segregated space, and they claim they are self-identified as a woman, then the woman is in trouble.

If anyone’s seen clips or images of Danielle Muscato , or remembers the people defending the Greens “non-men” debate - a Green Party member who said that s/he “presented as a man but identified as a woman” (I kid you not ) then you’d know that sometimes transwomen really do not pass.

And the proposed changes to the GRA would mean that there would be no need to pass - a man could simply say he identifies as a woman. He wouldn’t have to do anything else.

Someone has to be really hard of thinking not to realise

a) that self ID will make it easier for male pervs to enter women's toilets. If their presence is challenged they can simply say I identify as a woman and will have every right to be there. The slightest challenge will be put down as trans phobia.

b) Also hard of thinking not to realise this whole thing is about women's safety and privacy, not whether an individual is trans or not.

Why bring in legislation that potentially reduces the safety and privacy of women? It's insane.

that's a man not a trans woman

Are you just assuming by their appearance? That’s very transphobic of you!

that's a man not a trans woman

How do you know this daimbars ?

From the link:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-44577119

Solicitor advocate Jim Laverty, defending, said: "I will be addressing your lordship at the deferred sentence date in relation to the aspect of the sexual element in this case.

"You will be aware that this type of offence covers behaviour which humiliates, distresses or alarms someone.

"I will be trying to convince you this was more of a distasteful behaviour rather than the obvious inference of a sexual element."

Sheriff Tom Hughes deferred sentence for reports and released Anderson on bail.

What is going on here? Is Levon Anderson above the law?

And in case anyone was tempted to brush this sort of covert recording off as just "noises of people weeing", remember that there are people like this chap who filmed people in the toilets but also filmed them in public places like Starbucks then merged the clips together to make them unwitting stars in his own special porn films

This of course works both ways: if anyone attacks or harrasses someone in the men's they will be prosecuted too. Which means that no biological male should worry about using the toilet for their sex

Indeed

When this paedohpile tried to film a toddler using the gents, he was arrested

This man was jailed for filming other men using the urinals

(Police have trouble dealing with something as serious as a grooming gang, apparently from the fear of being labelled racist.
I'm worried that if self ID is introduced, the fear of being labelled transphobic will make them hold back from answering calls to men in womens bathrooms.)

Excellent point.

if anyone attacks or harrases women in bathrooms they will be prosecuted

Oh well that’s alright then. I’m sure the victims of male violence will be happy to know that their attacker will be dealt with. OR, radical I know, we don’t make it EASIER for perverts to gain access to female dedicated spaces, therefore not making a woman or child suffer the abuse in the first place.

It never happened to these hundreds of women

NEver happened to the women who worked at this council

Never happened to the men and women using this unisex toilet

Never happened to the girls who played softball at council facilities

Never happened to these female hospital employees

Never happened to the people who used the (unisex) train toilets

Didn't happen to a teen girl who was filmed through the ceiling

(All the above are from just the first two pages of returns from a Google search for "arrest film toilets"...)

Thanks Transplants.

Only logical after all.

Empress

Good point

I'm assuming those who think "it will happen anyway " don't bother locking their door when they go out, or close windows? Burglars will get into houses anyway. (!)

There is no logic to that position - it should be the opposite, we know some men are voyeurs and will go to great lengths to film women in intimate situations. We should not be making it EASIER for them. Self ID will do that

Transwoman or not, if anyone attacks or harrases women in bathrooms they will be prosecuted.

This of course works both ways: if anyone attacks or harrasses someone in the men's they will be prosecuted too. Which means that no biological male should worry about using the toilet for their sex.

(Police have trouble dealing with something as serious as a grooming gang, apparently from the fear of being labelled racist.
I'm worried that if self ID is introduced, the fear of being labelled transphobic will make them hold back from answering calls to men in womens bathrooms.)

Meanwhile, women still have to deal with this kind of behaviour from men on a regular basis. Covert filming and masturbating is a huge problem in public places.

spotlight, not 'postlight'!!

Random

Some great example here of why the simplistic idea of perpetrators being caught and adequately sentenced doesn't really reassure me. I selected this simply because it's a few threads down on the list from this one

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3276137-Slap-on-the-wrists-again-for-abusive-men

I'd much rather
a) women were protected by the law at the outset
b) men were put in the postlight when it comes to being told to 'be nice'

Tells

Yes. It's a bit 'you smelled it you dealt it'

Wonder where Daim is? 🤔

Whether a male human being is a conventional bloke or one who identifies as a woman makes no difference. Both groups offend at the same rate. A MtF is just as likely to be a rapist as any other male bodied person.

BUT...

That's not how the thread started. Isn't it weird the way Daimbars whisks in to put things in order? Inserting trans into the thread immediately? When, actually, the point is men.

Also never happens that someone who self-Id's gets to win a prize, gain political power, run a race or speak at a conference...

What I was responding to was people saying that self ID is relevant in this specific case. I just don't see that it is. Didn't mean to step on toes.

Self ID is relevant in any case where a man has filmed women in toilets; because allowing Self ID will allow men to get access to women's toilets much easier than if Self ID isn't 'allowed'.

Anyone that thinks 'trans women are women' should also be worried about it; but it seems that some people who do believe that, also think that allowing men into women's toilets is a good thing.

It's fascinating how people who are mainly jumping down women's throats, also do so on threads like this as it shows that they don't really think that 'trans women are women' and automatically assume that women are talking about 'trans women'. That is their assumption to make of course...