Change My Mind Youtube Video

I thought it was very telling that one of Madison's supporters glibly misgendered to no criticism but when Crowder did it there was an audible hiss from the crowd. Sorry, it can't work like that. You can't exempt people you like.

I found it interesting but slightly depressing because

1. The presenter was clever and a good debater but then used so called facts from the UK which I think were false...and that undermined him for me. I would liked it better if he had stuck to the truth

1. It is clear that the students at that university were very inexperienced at debating.One of the few downsides of most people trying to be polite (generally a good thing) is that some people are too quick to adopt victim status and announce themselves disrespected, in situations when an objective bystander would disagree. So the same people close down debate, rather than realise that many, as -yet undecided, viewers, want and need to be convinced by concrete examples and arguments, not emotive declarations of triggering.

Yes - hence the assertion that there are 'many genders'. What they mean is 'I am an individual who does not want to be constrained by societal expectations relating to my gender'.

Exactly, we can all agree on this. But not that it leads to misgendering being a hate crime.

I think Madison was a typical struggling young woman who'd swallowed a dictionary

In relation to my gender though some of my presentation / behaviour is feminine, some masculine. I don't have "a gender" myself, but society wants to ascribe (assign?!) me gender roles, either I'm conforming to the role expected by my sex or I'm being too "masculine" and not conforming. That's why I don't think I have "a gender" I think it's a concept applied to me.

Madison was off the scale woke!

Serf

Freudian slip there1 It's Madison

It does make me think though that pronouns are an issue for all of us, as language forces us to make judgements according to a binary - though how long has it taken for Ms still not to be widely accepted!

Weirdly I think he actually changed my mind a bit.

I would say, sex is sex, it's biological, but gender is your presentation to the world and stereotypes/roles surrounding the sexes so they are different things. So you can change your gender but not your sex.

Steven thinks the two are exactly the same and interchangeable so gender is your sex sex is your gender.

I guess legally he's right because gender and sex are use interchangeably all the time. So in that case I'd say you can't actually change your gender.

God that Madigan was a right pita.

Yes - hence the assertion that there are 'many genders'. What they mean is 'I am an individual who does not want to be constrained by societal expectations relating to my gender'.

Indeed! Well done to your 15 year old son who can see what many older people can't!

WeAre

they see it as a property of individuals that we'd call personality

Yes - hence the assertion that there are 'many genders'. What they mean is 'I am an individual who does not want to be constrained by societal expectations relating to my gender'.

They just don't realise that's what they mean. We agree, yet our solutions to that are different.

My 15 year old made that very comment (in his own words!) as we watched it.

It's a massive mismatch around conception of gender - we see it as a property of society that doesn't fit neatly to individuals and they see it as a property of individuals that we'd call personality.

It also makes me think how would you actually describe gender categories other than masculine and feminine. What do non binary people have in common that's distinct? Obviously a rejection of gender categories but feminists have that too. The answer seems fairly clear to me to eradicate gender stereotypes and roles.

I thought he did well in demonstrating the pure impracticality of "my pronouns are..." on a day to day level.

Og my goodness. That was meant to be bigger picture

Will ask MNHQ to edit. Sorry.

Natural

Yes, they all could see that sex and gender were different

But no conception of how regressive it is to identify as the opposite gender in order to escape gender stereotypes.

And how potentially dangerous to women and children.

I see why they can't see the bigger picture yet. They are young and want to be 'nice', and the non-binary person (who accepted being called 'she' by her supporter but not by the interviewer ) could do with the support of feminism to combat the pressure to conform.

(Post edited by MNHQ)

They all seemed to be saying gender is behaviour and a social construct. Although mostly they weren't particularly coherent, they all differentiated between sex and gender I think; nothing to support the 'is actually the opposite sex, has always been the opposite sex' idea. The last guy was actually talking about male and female role stereotypes. The others sound terribly confused and self obsessed. I hope they grow up and realise they've been used.

That was entertaining. I thought it was interesting that Madison was most concerned about trans women out of the LGBT community as according to her the rate of violence against them was highest.

Also "have you got your own security?" to the bloke at the end who was more gender critical / naive about the whole thing!

Omg, the woman at the end! That is scary. Loved his comeback though.

It had me laughing out loud in parts, especially the first man who was trying so hard to be considerate but got tied up in his own knots instead. Madison was a pain in the arse, with all their over-talking and illogicality - how can a 'crime' not be illegal???? Madison clearly stated their pronouns, but later a woman from the audience had a go at Steven for the way he'd treated Madison & called them 'her', this went unremarked by everyone, though Steven was taken to task for saying 'her' a bit later. I was puzzled to hear about this dr in the UK who is carrying out surgeries on kids: did I hear that right? An urban myth, surely, the same as I heard when I was in the US that you can have sex-selective abortions here in the UK - not legally you can't. Apart from that, he nailed them.

It seems very Tower of Babel to me.

I watched a couple more of his videos - yes he's populist but he also highlights the willful blindness of the media towards the extremes of the SJWs. These are not nice people but dangerous in their extreme views and willingness to use arms to get their way.

He did a video back in 2015 where one of his crew identified as gender non conforming and went to a LGBT meeting identifying as a computer and they said people could address then with any pronoun as long as they didn't use Windows 2000 as that offended them as a MAC. It was very politically incorrect, crass and also drove home the point. It's now banned from multiple platforms. WTF!! What happened to free speech and humour? I feel coercively controlled by their doublethink and behaviour.

TransplantsArePlants

Great you watched it with your sons because it's good for guys to see other guys pulling this apart.

I didn't like the way he conducted the interview - a bit too confrontational.
I think Louis Theroux could make a good documentary on the transgender topic.

I wonder if they truly do believe that it is in some way progressive to change the term personality to gender identity and attach pronouns to each and every variation.
It seems very Tower of Babel to me.

woman

It was really good. And I watched it with my sons who are a bit bored by me going on about it, but do 'get it'

Good idea - I'm commenting from recent watching - I like the approach of that guy Steve Crowder - he's researched the topic and brings to light the unworkability and idiocy of it all. The fact that there's no rationale for it plus no general consent - just the assumptions and entitlement - so he's not criticising the adults who identify but the unworkability of what they espouse plus the risk to children. And he disputes successfully their claims of intersex and the other condition - it's like they are saying anyone who identifies has a condition - and that's not right either.

I watch

By the way. I am typing as a watch