"In six months you can't tell that this person was male"

"And don’t most posters here want TW to undergo genital surgery?"

Some gender critical feminists would say that they would accept people who have had full SRS into women's spaces. That doesn't translate into wanting all trans people to have full SRS. Just that those who want to be granted access to women's spaces should have had the surgery.

And don’t most posters here want TW to undergo genital surgery?

I don't know, but I don't.

I'm in favour of TW getting genital surgery before being allowed into women's safe spaces

The thing that worries me, and it's been mentioned by others, is this acting, in itself, as a motivation for the surgery to take place. This alone makes me wonder at the wisdom of the post-operative condition serving as a "passport" at all.

I actually would rather not accept males into female spaces surgery or no.

Still socialised as male for eh most part and and have male physiology - penis or not. So usually stronger, faste, taller etc etc.

The Times article was very interesting.

Apparently facial feminisation is more important because the genitals are hidden, but everybody can see you face.

I'm in favour of TW getting genital surgery before being allowed into women's safe spaces , but that doesn't mean I want them to have genital surgery in general as id really hope they were able to make some peace with their bodies with therapy

She continued to dress in a masculine way for years, she said, because she didn’t want people to make fun of her.
That is so sad, when you see the photo. How can people do this to themselves?

Post-op trans women are definitely accepted as more “legitimate”, both in this forum and in general, aren’t they? Especially when it comes to sharing spaces and do on. The “they still have a penis” thing is much-cited.

As an example, posters in this folder generally aren't so keen on the idea of male prisoners, particularly those in prison for sex offences, being transferred, penis and all, to a women's prison. Seems reasonable enough to me.

nauticant yes agree and this is what the system should be doing. Hopefully it is doing that... it seems pretty easy to access hormones, but the path to surgery appears to be longer...

Agree also people shouldn’t be misled about the likely results of their surgery. But that info should be coming from their doctors and other members of the trans community.

Did anyone else read the Times article about facial feminisation?

Do you have a link to that?

Post-op trans women are definitely accepted as more “legitimate”, both in this forum and in general, aren’t they? Especially when it comes to sharing spaces and do on. The “they still have a penis” thing is much-cited. That’s what I mean by that.

Yes, I agree.

But to claim the surgery gives results indistinguishable from a vagina is unfair on the people facing drastic surgery.

From my reading of the discussion here, most posters would support a trans person undergoing sex reassignment surgery but only after they've had sufficient counselling to be sure that it is what they want and, effectively, that there is no acceptable alternative for them.

And don’t most posters here want TW to undergo genital surgery?

No?

Boo a clitoris is made out of the head of the penis. I’m not sure of the mechanics, but I do believe people who had had the op using the most recent techniques are often able to orgasm.

In any case, having this operation must be a pretty massive and life-changing thing. I can’t judge anyone for doing it at all. It must take a fair bit of courage. And don’t most posters here want TW to undergo genital surgery? So being critical of their genitals once they’ve done that feels unfair.

Having had a chat with someone who had sex with post-op transsexuals and with women, it really is unreal. I won't go into the details but men can tell the difference and lesbians can tell the difference (even where the work was done recently and therefore benefited from the latest advances).

I do feel for transsexuals though and do hope very much that the op brings them the peace they long for.

I just felt the whole thing was so sad. Overwhelming sad.

It says in that article that Cassady is an over-the-road truck driver. I can see bathroom breaks becoming a lot more inconvenient.

Reading it carefully, i think the surgeon is just referring to the bottom surgery as being impossible to tell the person was male - not the overall look. I find that so hard to believe but have no desire to look at photos to find out.

I loved it too. Completely kick ass.

Nauticant, that was my favourite TV show as a kid! I used to pretend to be asleep on the sofa so I could stay in the room while it was on.

Rewatched it all on YouTube a while back. Still brilliant.

Given enough cosmetic surgery, in 6 months you wouldn't know I'm short and fat. Send me money now and I'll report back.

That reminds me of the book "The Lives and Loves of a She Devil".

Olenna, I haven’t seen it but I will look.

I was looking at Juno Dawson post FFS the other day.
Dawson was once a beautiful man, but now just looks a bit off.

I suppose it’s no worse than the awful cosmetic surgery some bio women have elected for, but it made me sad - perhaps because it’s the pursuit of impossible goal?