High court refuses gender neutral passports

haXXor Thats a really interesting point.
Men talk about how personally they take it, how hurt they feel, and how they frame it as discrimination.
Their complaints completely overshadow the child protection policy.

Maybe we could collate a list of similar policies? Would it be worth starting a thread?

Makes me question whether these men genuinely don't understand why safeguarding procedure have to be in place, they understand but their hurt feelings trump everything or if they want to reduce safety for children?

And I hit peak man again as this jackass puts his feelings above the safety of hundreds of children by challenging Virgin Australia's policy. And British men have done it too.

Sure, no problem. I suggest that you contact KLM, Delta, Air France et all, and ask for their internal policies on this. "What a Mumsnetter remembers from her flight" isn't exactly a quotable source.

HaXXor, and at one time those sensible and fair points about the disadvantage and unfairness of a change on others would be rightly considered important. But these [undefined] activists actually do not give a crap about how getting what they want will affect others. They want what they want, dammit.

Haxxor, that is a really interesting point.

Could I please use it for the additional info parts of my giant equality act reform proposal-in-progress?

I think some real world examples as to why your birth sex is relevant will be very useful, especially when talking to MPs.

KLM offer an "unaccompanied minor" service for children as young as five and part of that service is that your child's seat will be next to a window and the immediate neighbour will be female. I was once asked to swap with my boyfriend on a flight, and when I asked why (I was curious), the hostess said that only a woman could sit next to an unaccompanied child, so I had to sit next to the teen girl occupying the window seat. This is a sensible policy because of the increased risk that men as a class pose to children.

In order to plan seating in order to offer that service, the airline needs to know the sex of passengers, otherwise they risk seating a lone kid in a row otherwise full of an all-male sports team or stag party, which becomes much harder to resolve than asking a couple to trade seats.

Removal of sex from passports could result in airlines being forced to withdraw Unaccompanied Minor services, which would hurt families who can't afford to fly a chaperone with the child.

Thank fuck for small mercies, and some common sense!!!

No. You explain why you are deliberately misrepresenting bits and pieces of theAct to make your point.
S7 is quite clear - it's about Gender Reassignment - changing attributes of sex, a person who has the protected characteristic of gender reassignment.

Nowhere in S7 does it mention the sex of an individual.

Gender reassignment

(1)A person has the protected characteristic of gender reassignment if the person is proposing to undergo, is undergoing or has undergone a process (or part of a process) for the purpose of reassigning the person's sex by changing physiological or other attributes of sex.

(2)A reference to a transsexual person is a reference to a person who has the protected characteristic of gender reassignment.

(3)In relation to the protected characteristic of gender reassignment—
(a)a reference to a person who has a particular protected characteristic is a reference to a transsexual person;
(b)a reference to persons who share a protected characteristic is a reference to transsexual persons

"How? When they replace Sex with Gender?"

Read how sex is used in S7 and the associated examples

They are right about the Equality Act though. How? When they replace Sex with Gender?

Changing words in laws could be fun though...

"Remember, such waffly shite is ALREADY causing lots of large organisations to misinterpret the Equalities Act. That alone is worth a wider debate!!"

They are right about the Equality Act though.

Safer for all to have bio sex, F/M and then an extra symbol for those who present unusually (at their request) to avoid unnecessary indignities

Agree

I don’t mind who looks through my bag (and I don’t think sex is relevant, personally, but it might be important to someone of a different background)

... but if they insist on putting a finger up my bottom, I will insist that the finger belongs to a female person!

An ‘F’ marker to proves my legal right to that.

Doesn't make you, or them, right. That's the whole bloody point.

There has to be clarity or we just continue to fall into an almighty mess of nobody knowing what laws actually mean.

Remember, such waffly shite is ALREADY causing lots of large organisations to misinterpret the Equalities Act. That alone is worth a wider debate!!

Good!!

The full judgment is worth reading. The Government Equalities Office said that sex and gender are often used interchangeably in law as I keep saying. I am in good company.

Gender is irrelevant. Sex is relevant.

You can already change the "sex" (as it says, not "gender") on your passport with a Deed Poll and a letter from your GP saying you are serious about it. You don't need a GRC or to have any sort of medical diagnosis or treatment.

It is therefore pretty much meaningless if anyone were to rely on a passport to determine someone's (biological) sex.

Do airport security staff really check sex on passports before carrying out searches? I'd be surprised, but then so many things surprise me these days.

Great stuff. I hope this gets the discussion going.

No reason to record gender. Many reasons to record sex.

body found on baggage carousel
You've obviously had some interesting flights..........

Given the million and one possible genders, I would not have gender on passports at all. Sex, well you could have M/F/prefer not to say, and then some additional 'hidden' info. Sex is relevant for travel and security as regards body searches, and if you get arrested, how will they know where to house you?

Interesting that I don't have such a problem with this person as with the other styles of trans activists, I suppose because they are not seeking to take anything from me, but asking, in effect, for a third space of their own. I can see why other countries that have a cultural history of third gender etc would be okay with X on passports. But don't call it gender, or we'll run out of letters pretty quickly!

Cross post. Totally agree.

The sex marker and gender presentation markers could be made so they are only seen under the special security light, if privacy is the sticking point?

Does anybody actually give a damn about this?! Why does it matter

Of course we should have this reference! Otherwise there could be major security breaches