High court refuses gender neutral passports

I find it fascinating that women are generally pressing for rights which prioritize safety and the ability to hold a hand up and say 'stop'.
Men appear to be pressing for the rights to be able to access things that have been held back from them, often for safety reasons.

Oh Snappity thinks it's poor parenting then. So everything much change to suit Snappity. Whose tactics are those? They sound familiar.

I sent all my daughters on flights as unaccompanied minors otherwise they wouldn't have been able to go places as they did. They'd have had to stay at home.

Yep, those are the tactics of MRAs.

Interesting points/posts HaXXor. There really is nothing I abhor more than people who want to prioritise their ‘rights’ over the safeguarding of children. Now you’ve pointed it out, I’ve realised these people are generally men.

"Why not? It seems to have worked pretty well up to now. Why should airlines have to change their business practices to suit a small minority?"

Because I think it is poor parenting.

Of course - airlines should remove a valuable service for children because men want to do something, and if they do that thing then existing safeguarding practices can't be applied.... That seems reasonable, and not at all like the tail wagging the dog...

Of course we need a gender on a passport... sake.

I don't think airlines should accept unaccompanied minors anyway

FFS.

"Look at the King! Look at the the King!
Look at the King, the King, the King!
The King is in the altogether, but altogether, the altogether
He's altogether as naked as the day that he was born
The King is in the altogether, but altogether, the altogether
It's altogether the very least the King has ever worn"

I don't think airlines should accept unaccompanied minors anyway.
Why not? It seems to have worked pretty well up to now. Why should airlines have to change their business practices to suit a small minority?

@snappity: I don't think airlines should accept unaccompanied minors anyway.

Lucky you that you have the privilege to be able to afford to send an adult chaperone with your child on every flight they take. Not everyone has that level of wealth and so the unaccompanied minors service is needed.

Ye gods! Don't read it, I'll paraphrase for you

1.1 All applications are required to select either the gender Male or Female on the passport application form.... gender... gender... gender... gender... gender... gender

I haven't had a chance to read it yet but here's the full judgment if anyone is interested.

www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/2018/1530.html

Erm... attributes = characteristics of something, something understood as being typical of, assigned as being representative of...

... read the examples, changing social presentation changes an attribute of sex actually means changing how you look means you seem to be more A than B.

Absolutely fuck all to do with changing sex and everything to do with the appearance of...

Q Why have sex recognition on passport?
A For example, to assist in the provision of XYZ service
Q I don't think we should offer XYZ service anyway

"Removing sex data completely as suggested upthread would prevent the airlines from pre-planning their flight seating around child safeguarding."

I don't think airlines should accept unaccompanied minors anyway.

"changing attributes of sex"

Exactly. If attributes of sex can be changed then sex cannot be invariant birth sex. And if you read the examples, changing social presentation changes an attribute of sex. So sex in EA2010 cannot just be biological sex.

I'm pretty sure all of this is getting out of hand now.

Snappity, women already face sexual assault from men seated next to them on flights. We know that some men will sexually abuse children, many more men than women. It's evident from the prior two statements that seating women next to unaccompanied children will reduce the risk of that child being sexually molested during the flight. KLM have, or at least had when I last flew, a policy of placing women next to unaccompanied children, which would require knowing the sex of passengers before they boarded in order to sensibly apply it. Otherwise you have cabin crew trying to rearrange people between rows, as opposed to asking me and my then-boyfriend to swap back to our assigned seats (we had self-swapped because I prefer the aisle). Reducing the accuracy of passport sex data would effectively force airlines to consider "non binary" as male for the purposes of child safeguarding, reducing the pool of known females who can sit next to the child. Removing sex data completely as suggested upthread would prevent the airlines from pre-planning their flight seating around child safeguarding.

That and, as we have seen "No other country has a problem with it" is demonstrably not true in other closely associated areas.

Given other countries already allow something

I'm struggling as to why "other countries" is any sort of explanation? Can you elaborate, or does "other countries" stand alone as an overwhelming justification for global group think?

Given other countries already allow something which is obviously international in scope I am struggling to see how adding the UK to the list would cause the problems people on this thread are claiming.

Picasso, I have no problem with orthodox jewish men asking to move, but they have no justification asking women to move. Asking a woman to sit next to a child is for safeguarding, religion doesn't come close to that level of importance. The haredi men can move.

Sex is relevant on identifying documents such as passports because, well, it assists in identifying a person. Which is the point.

I’m so sick of fatuous needy twats who cannot see that what they need is therapy.

Orthodox men routinely get women seated next to them removed.

www.nytimes.com/2015/04/10/us/aboard-flights-conflicts-over-seat-assignments-and-religion.html

Upstart, yes, that would be interesting reading. It would also be interesting to see where TRA demands would deliver MRA demand by sleight of hand.

A quick google of sexual assault aeroplane indicates that men are all too willing to sexually assault adult women sitting next to them. Why would they not sexually assault a child?