Those suicide statistics

sorry women have been against constraining gender roles >> feminists but actually it's most women really. Few women are OK with being told they must / mustn't do this that the other because of their cunts.

Having "bottom" surgery is a massive massive deal and I'm not surprised so many trans people give it a swerve. The side effects around such invasive surgery, removal of healthy body parts, scarring, possibel long term pain, infection and I dread to think where it leaves sexual feeling / function.

Having this should not be a "gateway" to anything, nothing should be "on condition" of surgery like this.

Having said that, my position (which has hardened in recent months / years) is that you really can't change sex and there's nothing you can do about that, not surgery not hormones not nothing.

I think names presentation whatever I mean that's all fine obviously, women have been against constraining gender roles forever.

However accessing things meant for the female sex is just a no no. Thing is the more that is given the more we are pushed. I don't see an end to it until all mentions / stats / anything to do with the female sex (girls / women) is verboten.

That’s a kind thing to do, Betty. Hope friend is okay & sure she’ll appreciate you reaching out.

Betty there's always a danger of seeing a big goal in one's life as being positively transformative. As in 'when I'm like (insert goal) life will be perfect.' This happens after bariatric surgery too, you go through all that but then ... life still isn't what you hoped for. I do hope your friend is ok.

One problem with getting accurate statistics is that the trans umbrella is now so wide that even most of us come under it (people with no gender).

This Swedish study is a reference that doctors on the ‘watch and wait’ side of the spectrum often site - the study shows that full surgical transition makes trans people even more prone to suicide :/

journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0016885

Anecdotal - a transwoman in a online women’s social group I frequent has recently had bottom surgery after presenting as a woman full time for some years. She is really struggling to come to terms with it, having had a hard time healing and gaining quite a bit of weight due to being less active/struggling to get hormones rebalanced post op and a bit of comfort eating to boot.

She feels very strongly that she was happier and healthier before the reassignment surgery, when she had just hormone therapy and breast implants. She’s feeling very low.

In fact, having read that study, I think I might check in with her via PM, just to reach out.

Why do you think changing the law in the UK to recognise self-ID will lead to a reduction in the number of trans people in the UK attempting or committing suicide?

And why would it be more effective than any other measures?

Is your view based on anything concrete?

"The whole point about the suicide statistics isn't to shout "look how big!", it's to ask "but what does this actually mean?"."

Very much agree which is why allowing trans people to take their place in society according self-ID is critically important

The whole point about the suicide statistics isn't to shout "look how big!", it's to ask "but what does this actually mean?".

Shouting though is often much more satisfying than keeping quiet and doing difficult researching/thinking.

www.ncl.ac.uk/press/articles/archive/2017/05/autismsuiciderates/

"66% of adults newly diagnosed with Asperger Syndrome (AS) reported having contemplated suicide"

Why is there now a huge suicide risk for trans people, if trans people have always been [pick a %] of the population?

Has this increased or decreased with greater acknowledgement of trans as a phenomenon? Does it increase or decrease, long term, on transition?

How do the stats look if you remove confounding factors?

Is it better for mental health to acknowledge that one remains the birth sex but presents as the opposite (as I believe Truscum, Miranda, Hobbit and some others who post here have said) or to deny this?

Could the risk be reduced by accepting one's trans nature and asking others to accept that too, rather than setting oneself against the world?

Don't just make it everyone else's fault for not believing the same as you.

Is that because they are trans or is that because they have comorbid mental health conditions? And would that be out of proportion with other young people having comorbid mental health conditions?

Study after study has shown a very high suicide risk in trans people, in multiple countries and across decades. Denying the wall of evidence is like denying climate change.

So it toes across the piece around a mental health crisis with girls

That needs addressing generally and not cut down into trans/ contraception/ sexual abuse/ misogynist society / beauty standards etc as girls experience lots of different stuff.

For boys the situation is different, different triggers concerns etc with some overlap I'm sure. So that needs looking at,

One final note that changing/ removing the categorisation of girl/ boy will make stats meaningless and we will less able to see trends etc at least by sex. Is it worth losing this?

I think it is the most despicable abusive thing I can conceive to use these bare faced lies and the horror of suicide to manipulate children and parents. To see the usual suspects arrive on this thread and use the same twisted tactics brings up a bile in my throat.

In the Australian study I linked earlier I mean. Teenage girls on social media, struggling with gender identity have high rates of mental health issues. But somehow that becomes "transwomen are at high risk of suicide". The teenage girls get forgotten in all this.

This study showed the very act of being on Tumblr is associated with increased depression and low self- esteem:

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/29370275/

It's also worth noting that the vast majority, 75% of those self-presenting in the study are those assigned female at birth. It's those assigned female at birth who have significant mental health issues. But we don't seem to hear about those people as much...

That's my opinion.

Being trans is a call for help, a call for attention

YYY!

pretty informative article with suicide etc stats for girls / boys etc

The way I see it is that not all trans people are actually trans and the actual number of people being born in the wrong body is tiny.

Being trans is a call for help, a call for attention.

Or at least more straightforward I mean.

Pill makes girls depressed >> look for other options.

Social media >> not so obvious at all.

There are a host of issues around young people and mental health, and action needs to be taken and fast. Off the top of my head:

• Link to hormonal contraception causing massive depression issue in girls (has anything changed? Don't think so)
• Social media and various adverse effects on mental health

These issues affect girls more than boys and girls are the fastest growing suicide group + fastest growing trans group.

This needs to be looked at across the board these are the young people in our society that are in severe difficulty.

Never forgetting that boys still comprise a larger group than girls when it comes to suicide (but not to self harm or attempts, I think? following same pattern as adults - forgive me if incorrect no time to google right now).

Mental health issues can intertwine with each other and as a society we need to get to grips with this. Article after article of handwringing but we need to do something. The contracpetion thing might be a straightforward place to start.

Trans kids exist

No trans kids existed in the past. Ever. Childen also didn't kill themselves or report feeling suicidal in swathes over a belief about gender either.

Why now?

That is a PRIME example of the guilt trip without genuine consideration of the statistics.

Always with the guilt trips.