Handmaidens

I had the Manic Panic hair too at that age, and on behalf of those who love it am sad that it's now associated with being a smug little shit in the minds of people outside specific subcultures.

Aunt Mary-Sue?

Thanks Bertrand - I am not much younger than thee, but haven't come across that phrase before.

Handmaid or Aunt, I dont see how the term is more misogynistic than their behaviour. Its like objecting to Myra Hindley being labelled abusive.

Its a term only women can be labelled with, as its a type of behaviour limited to women who collude with misogyny and the patriarchy.
Objecting to the term is ironic, from posters who have defended and used terms which have since been banned by MNHQ.

I am just a knuckle dragging older woman with life experience, no I am past it etc. Not a know it all under graduate with unnatural hair colour and superior knowledge.

For me the term ‘handmaiden’ encapsulates the ideology that women dont have a right to their own boundaries. (It doesn’t matter that you don’t want to be penetrated by a penis you must allow yourself to be penetrated for the good of society).

What worries me is do these young women genuinely think it’s ok to be uncomfortable with a sexual partner? And why do they think that?

Is there a link in the increase of porn (particularly violent porn), and women’s consent to their own boundaries being removed ?

Agree that perhaps the term could be changed from hand maiden maybe

*bog standard

Fermat yes ‘scab’ conveys it well, because of the often material, personal damage the scabbish view-holder does.

There’s also ‘traitor’ for the self-serving ones who know what they are doing. That has scrolled through my mind a few times in professional settings.

or your non- blamey, big standard ignorant and naive’ for those who haven’t really thought it all through, but still like to tell the rest of us that we have got it all wrong.

If you're going to insult someone I do wish it could be done without bringing their womanhood into it, and tying the insult in with their sex. Handmaiden is an slur only a woman can suffer; as if it's reasonable to expect more/different from women, and as if you have a right to judge them on the basis of her womanhood to different standards than you would a man. You do not. I really, really hate gendered insults, and I never thought I'd hear them so vociferously defended amongst feminists.

And yes, the fringe on miss seafoam hair was hilarious if you're familiar with the Tumblr meme.

Auntie Phyllis in honor of Phyllis Schlafly?

Agreed Prosperous, although some of the superiority is obvious naivety, it doesn’t change the fact that these attitudes exist and are perpetuated. There’s an almost arrogance, especially when one makes YouTube videos to “school” other people in your radical amazing very smart progressive thinking. But people who are over a certain arbitrary age can’t possibily disagree with you because you are wrong, it can’t possibly because they have much more life experience and can offer a more measured and contextualised opinion, it must because they are out of touch and set in their ways

I can tell you what I know and that is that I know nothing!

Or a feminine version of Uncle Tom. Aunt Katie? Aunt Laura?

Much as with all the terms we're being told not to use the issue isn't with the word itself, it's with what it conveys. Apparently women aren't allowed to be disgusted with those among us who've decided to actively throw other women under the bus because that benefits them in some way.

I actually lost a friend to this kind of thinking and I know it’s going to sound offensive but I think there is weight to it - this friend went to uni, an echo chamber of young people with very little life experience, testing out both their sexuality and ability to form social opinion for the first time. I went straight into work and had an altogether different experience in my formative years.

I sarted full-time employment at 16, then moved out of home soon after.

Uni in my opinion prolongs childhood. I saw this with my peers.

These people include a group of graduates that then spend the rest of their life, believing they are superior to others who have lead a different life path.

This comes out in various ways, in language, when they are speaking to people who are not exclusively at their education level, they do this to exclude people from the conversation and to make themselves look superior etc.

Another way is to dismiss others life experience and opinion, think Brown and his bigot experience, or the way some behave to this day over Brexit.

Some women may not see how they come across to others when they bend to placing males first, like some graduates who don't realise how snobby and know it all, they come across, when they don't know it all.

As far as I can see, every oppressed group has a derogatory name for people within that group who side with the oppressor, be it oppression based on race, class, sex or whatever. And often, as with "handmaiden", the whole point of the choice of derogatory term is an ironic reference to how the oppressing class sees the people they're oppressing. The idea is that you (generic you, the class traitor) are knowingingly deciding to side with the oppressor on the oppressor's terms, for material gain, which means you have willingly embraced the stereotypes the oppressor wants to impose on all of your class.

And the whole point of a derogatory term is to be, well, derogatory.

But it's quite entertaining to have a think through the long list of alternatives to handmaiden we could borrow ... I quite fancy "scab" myself (the term for a working class manual worker who deliberately crosses picket lines and breaks strikes). "Scab" pretty much covers the behaviour under discussion.

Who isn’t interested in discussion?

Isn’t this a discussion?

“Eye to the main chance”? Sorry- I am very old so my language might be a bit old fashioned sometimes. It means keeping a close eye on what would be most to your personal advantage.

But it’s obvious that you’re not interested in discussion, which is a shame.

No it would be pointless I agree.

There is also that well known anti feminist Morton’s Fork. If a feminist agrees with another woman it’s “Oh, feminists think all women are angels and can do no wrong”. If a feminist disagrees with another woman, the response is “What’s happened to the sisterhood - women just can’t wait to tear other women down”.

Bertrand I am afraid I did not understand this sentence:

Proper eye to the main chance.
Sorry- what does that mean?

^^ I was referring to the petty, sexist, vacuous mindset^ of those people making derogatory ‘TERF’ hairstyle memes, of course. For the avoidance of any doubt.

Really Antique ?

I’m surprised that it’s not okay to talk about the views of others, just because they are women. It seems to me that this handmaiden type of thinking is an identifiable and observable mindset that is in contrast to feminist progression.

I’m quite new to the details of feminism. I’m fairly young (I think, 24), my voice is high pitched (!) but I could never agree with what these young women are saying. It frankly sounds like a load of ill thought out bollocks designed to be socially progressive (with which I empathise and understand why you would want to be, it’s what we should all be) but lacks critical thinking, context and has very little substance below the surface.

I actually lost a friend to this kind of thinking and I know it’s going to sound offensive but I think there is weight to it - this friend went to uni, an echo chamber of young people with very little life experience, testing out both their sexuality and ability to form social opinion for the first time. I went straight into work and had an altogether different experience in my formative years.

I do agree that it is opinion voices purely to support groups they perceived to be oppressed. But intelligence and understanding the wider contexts of the ideas they are purporting are essential, and these women are either lacking it or choosing to ignore it.

If I may lower the tone slightly.

That very well-spoken green haired person in the video expounding on the evils of TERFdom, clearly didn’t googled ‘TERF fringe’ or ‘TERF bangs’ before visiting her hairstylist.

There’s a load of memes out there from a TRA point of view mocking this particular look as the preserve of evil gender critical feminists.

Which shows a petty, sexist, vacuous mindset right there, really.