Talking to teenagers about trans issues

Same situation here and I've had to back off because it's upsetting for all of us when they think their mum is an evil t**f. One of mine is trans and very unwilling to talk about it. Weirdly it was the older brother that was more upset with me - I think frustration made him tearful when he didn't have evidence to present. And they feel betrayed that their liberal parents are transphobic. Since then I have tried gently like have you seen this news story, what do you think? But he just doesn't know what to think. Their idealistic hearts and scientific brains and feminist opinions are crashing together and it will take a while.

I have been talking about this issue with my 11 yr old daughter as I expect it will be much more prevalent as she gets to High School and more of her peers reach puberty.
Applejack I think I'd point out to your daughters that poorly though out legislation on this issue will put transgender people at risk too as there will be fewer safe places for everyone. One of the reasons transwomen want access to sex segregated spaces is the same as women - to be away from men who might mean us harm, one risk of self-ID is that men with ill intent will abuse it.

I know sometimes some teens may think I am uncaring about feelings to talk about biology but as I am calm, rational and open minded most of the time about most things they are at least willing to listen.

The danger is the social expectation that women (especially young women) should be open, understanding and tolerant and that can be exploited to encourage them to support views that are directly against their own self-interest.

I have almost the opposite issue. My teenage daughter thinks it’s bonkers that people think they can change sex. We’ve talked about being a bit more understanding of trans issues, but definitely not at the expense of the rights of women and girls.

I think Trans issues are one of the few issues currently that are based on philosophical ideas that teens find interesting: identity, the body, gender etc. There is very little attempt to talk to teens intelligently about philosophy in any other way and I think that is one of the reasons it holds such strong appeal and fascination. Adults are usually ignoring all of these discussions or oblivious to them until their views emerge fully baked after lots of reading of online forums etc.

So I think teaching and talking about philosophy (subtlety) is the best protection against teens just swallowing ideas uncritically.

I broach various different subjects with my teens, we have been talking alot about Cardi B recently, not to do with Trans but about creating an identity and body modification and the way she uses wit and humor in a powerful way.

I talked to my 13yo recently. She is a v logical type (unlike her older sister who is prone to histrionics) - we talked a little bit about sport, and also about residential trips etc. She was v thoughtful in her responses but I did like this from her, quite early in the discussion.

"I think someone probably can't change sex physically, but they can spiritually".

Quite wise for a fairly right on 13yo, I thought.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLKjtvp2Jg0&feature=youtu.be

Also make it clear that the issue is protecting women's rights.

I think no one opposes trans rights but they are different to and separate from women's rights in many ways.

I think the Fallon Fox stuff is a pretty stark illustration of why gender presentation can’t replace biological sex. It’s a bit horrifying to watch though.

Someone posted a video about the Australian handball player earlier. That might be a more gentle introduction. I’ll see if I can find it.

I think if I was in your shoes I would show them some sports stories. I would say if tw are women, is it fair for boys and girls to race together if it means the girl misses out on scholarships to university/a successful sporting career? What about if a grown man physically injures a woman playing sport?

Ask them if it's reasonable for rape victims to say they want spaces where no one present has male anatomy? (Depending on their age!)

I think ask them questions instead of telling them stuff. Get them to justify their opinions in a number of different ways. Challenge every part of what they believe. The more you pick it apart, the more I think the scales will fall from their eyes.

I cried and shouted and thought they were so right until about 19. I peaked, 23 now and know the problem. It happens , don't worry, they'll get there .

I have 2 both know that it is impossible to change your sex. They understand that, for example, a man wearing a dress does not mean they are a woman. Both participate in a lot of sport and are very clear in their opinions regarding sex segregated spaces.

I am re-inforcing this as we go along.

Have you talked through some real world examples with them. I'm thinking of sport www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3271126-Two-boys-take-1st-and-2nd-place-in-Connecticut-girls-100m-sprint.

Not only is this a grossly unfair race because biology places the two transwomen at a huge advantage but could have implications for the girls college education in America.

We've been in the same process in this house.

It's been a slow, rational, teeny tiny steps process.

Started when the scales suddenly fell from my eyes of an 'oh my god, I need to show you something' moment.

It didn't go well!

So I started chunking up the elephant.

• Sport.

• Sex-segrated spaces.

• Science.

Nothing big, just 'oh, have you read/seen this, what are your thoughts''.

I'm pretty sure that in this house now we're all gender critical and aware of the issues.

The thing is that the pressure on our teenagers in this social media-driven, identity-is-all driven world is intense.

And given that some of us, who are adult women, are often nervous in expressing our gender critical views in our workplaces and spaces, particularly if we are people who have been championing LGB and women's rights for years, due to this new aggressive and cuckoo-ing agenda, worried about speaking out for fear of wrongful accusations of 'phobia'.

No wonder it's challenging for our teens to start to verbalise their own concerns. The wrongspeak is strong.

I have boys but I just had a little chat with them and said to them you do know it's not possible to be born in the wrong body don't you. They said yes of course Mum it's just a biological body that you are born with. They both seem pretty scientific in their approach to the subject.

They did both comment that a lot of the girls at school seem to be fussing about it. My oldest thinks it's attention seekers.