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Original poster

DP (and fil) are against me working

93 replies

WhiteCoyote · 20/06/2018 11:03

I honestly never thought I'd have to face an issue like this. I really need other women's voices to help lend strength to my own because I'm struggling to articulate my anger and rage into anything other than furious tears right now.

This is a long post but I've tried my best to fill in relevant details and not drip feed.

DP and I have always split the bills according to percentage earned. There's been times I've been between jobs and he's paid the bills, there's been times he has and I've paid the bills. Who pays what has never been an issue between us, and we were both decent earners.
Rather than have a joined account (which I was against after being stung in my last relationship) we'd take on individual bills that would loosely add up to us paying the fair amount - he'd pay rent and water bill, I'd take on food, council tax, electric, gas, tv licence etc.

We had a (surprise) baby 15 months ago. When we first found out I was pregnant we discussed earnings and what would happen, I let him know very clearly I intended to return to work after my maternity pay ran out, which he agreed to. This wasn't just for financial reasons, I enjoy working and like my independence.
Through my pregnancy and maternity I'd pay whatever bills I could afford and pass whatever ones I couldn't pay onto him as he was still earning full amount and a decent wage.
We can't quite afford childcare, so when my maternity pay ran out at 9 months, the agreement was he'd tell me his shifts in advance and I'd work whatever days he'd be off. DP made a few remarks about how it was too early for me to go back to work. He made a comment about how he hoped I might change my mind during my time off work and want to stay home with the baby full time. This comment absolutely cut me, but I shook it off as me being oversensitive.

Because of his shift patterns, he may work 11 days in a row then have 4 days off, or working a normal week and have a weekend off. It's quite random. Luckily I work with a very good closely knit team who have been very supportive and are happy to work my shifts in around his. I'm very thankful for them and don't know where I'd be without them. He gets his rota every 3 months in advance so when he does, I tell them what days I can work for the following months.

He now pays around 3/4 of the bills and I pay around 1/4, which is fair to our earnings. He earns around 1500 a month and I earn 500 a month. He pays around 1100 out to bills and I pay around 420, so the structure seems perfectly even to me.

A few weeks back, I was due to work a weekend. Our team was very short staffed that weekend and really needed me in. DP realised a few days before the weekend that he'd got his weeks mixed up and he was booked in for shifts that weekend. He immediately text me and told me to cancel my working shifts. I text him back telling him they weren't doctors appointments and I couldn't just cancel them, that we were short staffed and I was very relevant to work that weekend, and he'd have to swap some his shifts around to get cover. He didn't reply.

We have no family and no friends who could take on the childcare for us, it has to be one or the other of us at home at any given time.

The Friday before I was due to work he asked me if I'd managed to cancel my shifts. I told him no. He went off the rails telling me he'd get a disciplinary if he didn't show up for his weekend shifts, that his was the main wage coming in to the house so it was more important he he work. We argued for ages, I told him my wages were important too and still paid of some of the bills, and this was HIS cock up so HE had to fix it. It wasn't my place to take a fall for his mistake. We had a huge falling out, but I stood my ground and told him that there was literally no way I wasn't going to go to work.

I don't want to use the phrase "I won" as there really was no winning in the situation, but essentially I was the one to win and "get to go to work". We got through it - DP rang up work with some bullshit excuse that our son had hit his head and had to be taken to hospital so he couldn't come in, and I carried on working. It smoothed over, but I think we both still held a lot of resentment against each other.

A few weeks later, I met up with his father (along with his aunt and uncle) for a coffee like we do a couple of times a week. DP must have told him what happened because he also flew off the rails at me. He asked me what happened and I shrugged and gave him a watered down version of it, then he proceeded to tell me how in the wrong I was as DP's wage is the one that pays the bills. I corrected him and told him I still paid the bills too. FIL was furious and told me that the person who's earning more should always come first in these situations and that his wife didn't go back to work until the kids were in secondary school.
I'm proud to say that I held my ground calmly and rationally explained to him that that was 50 years ago and not the way it works now, and irregardless - we are RELIANT on my wages too. They're not pocket money. They're paying bills and if I didn't go back to work then how would be find an extra 500 a month?
He replied that if I didn't work, DP could work full time. I told him DP did work full time. He asked me if he did, how did I manage to work four days in a row the other week? I told him that was simply the way the shift patterns worked.
He didn't believe me. He genuinely thinks DP is giving up working shifts so I can work. I will add that DP's aunt was backing me up in the whole conversation, which gave me a bit of heart too.
FIL stated, again, that the one paying the bills should take precedence and we had to work together from now on.

DP did apologise that night for telling his dad about what happened. He did say his dad was in the wrong for having a go at me, but he also said "well he does have a bit of a point about the bills though."

I completely gave up after that.

A week ago, DP asked if I could cancel a shift so he could work a shift which would earn him a £200 bonus. Again, I said no, we're short staffed and the team needs me. He lamented the loss of £200 over the £70 odd I earn working an all dayer.

Again, last night, he asked the same question. The impression I get from both him and his dad is that I returned to work after my maternity to prove some feminist point about women having a right to work.

Women, how do I proceed with this? And keep my sanity?

My FIL is a generous and often kind man, but I haven't been able to look at him since that conversation.
This is driving a very irrefutable wedge between DP and I, and honestly, if something is going to split us up, this will be it.

The past couple of times I have tried talking to DP in a calm and rational way about this I end up bursting into frustrated tears (thus adding to the point to him that I am emotional and illogical about the whole situation).

I wouldn't say he is a sexist person - he's all for women taking on male roles, equal pay, rights etc - so why the fuck is he such a fucking dinosaur about this??

OP posts:
KittiesInsane · 20/06/2018 13:16

OP, you strike me as exceptionally articulate and with an attitude that will take you a long way. Stick with it.

(If that sounds patronising, it isn't meant to be! I have a DC close to your age and wish they sounded half as responsible and together.)

Original poster
WhiteCoyote · 20/06/2018 13:14

ltk that is a wonderful option and something I want for the long term - real training in a career that I'm passionate about and pays. I've been trying to figure out how it would work going to college + work + childcare, sadly I can't see a way through it until son goes to school.

OP posts:
Original poster
WhiteCoyote · 20/06/2018 13:11

you have to accept that you may need to find a better paying job or work more hours

Do you not think I would do this if it were an option? Hmm

If the solution to the whole problem was for me to waltz out and get a better paying job, then I'd be laughing. I'm also working 11-12 hour shifts entirely on my feet with two 20 minute breaks. I can't possibly work more hours.

OP posts:
ltk · 20/06/2018 13:09

The only way you should consider giving up work is if you can study/train for a more highly paid career. Otherwise, if you see a future in your current work, you must keep the job. You also need to convince dp to boot FIL out of your relationship. Explain how immature and childish running to Daddy with your problems and paperwork is.

Sarahconnor1 · 20/06/2018 12:54

If the principle is important to you (which it sounds like it is), then you have to accept that you may need to find a better paying job or work more hours

Why is it all the Ops responsibility to juggle this. Maybe her partner could find a better job with less shift work, which would help the Op develop her own career, maybe he could take some responsibility by not misremembering his shifts, maybe he could back his partner when his dad has a go at her.

You do need to talk though and set some boundaries with the fil.

AssassinatedBeauty · 20/06/2018 12:51

But he isn't really being pragmatic, as other posters have pointed out. Or, if he thinks he is, then there are lots of factors he hasn't thought about and he's only looking at the very short term picture.

Gruach · 20/06/2018 12:48

Also not sure why you have posted in feminism, this isn't really about your sex is it?

Wins a prize for The Most Nonsensical Post I have read here in a decade. Flowers

NataliaOsipova · 20/06/2018 12:46

I wouldn't say he is a sexist person - he's all for women taking on male roles, equal pay, rights etc - so why the fuck is he such a fucking dinosaur about this??

Reading what you've written, one interpretation that occurred to me is that he's simply worried about money and the responsibility that comes with being the main wage earner when there's a child to support. He's possibly putting pragmatism (how can we earn the most money for the family) over principles (how can we prioritise each other's jobs fairly). You need to sit down and talk about this. If the principle is important to you (which it sounds like it is), then you have to accept that you may need to find a better paying job or work more hours.....or simply have less money as a family. Sounds like a frank conversation about priorities is in order.

Sarahconnor1 · 20/06/2018 12:45

Yeah I think racecardriver is new to feminism Grin

shouldwestayorshouldwego · 20/06/2018 12:43

Also not sure why you have posted in feminism, this isn't really about your sex is it?

Think someone is in the wrong place and it isn't the OP.

Original poster
WhiteCoyote · 20/06/2018 12:39

Also not sure why you have posted in feminism, this isn't really about your sex is it?

Explain to me how it isn't about sex. It's about women getting the back foot yet again because I was the vessel who birthed our child and needed to takes months off my career. The one with the penis does not have that issue.

It's also expected by the ones with penises that those without should be staying at home with the children. This is definitely a feminist issue.

OP posts:
lovetheway · 20/06/2018 12:38

This IS about her sex- because the bottom line is that her DP does not feel her job and her responsibilities are as important.

Sarahconnor1 · 20/06/2018 12:37

Also not sure why you have posted in feminism, this isn't really about your sex is it?

The assumption the OP is the primary carer and the one who should give up her job is absolutely related to her sex and the expectations around that.

MagicFajita · 20/06/2018 12:33

@Racecardriver, she doesn't want her job to come first , she has already said she is working around his shifts. The issue is that he keeps getting his rota mixed up, meaning that she is expected to drop her shift.

Johnnycomelately1 · 20/06/2018 12:31

This is how women get screwed over- they don't earn the largest wage (due to structural factors) so their job takes more and more of a back seat and it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Then when their DH buggers off they're left high and dry with very poor earning potential.

PeakPants · 20/06/2018 12:31

If you had the financial security that you would gain from marriage would you feel differently?

Just wanted to say, it is a myth that you gain real financial security from marriage. You gain more than if you are not married, but you do not gain real security. You have the right to ask the court to divide any marital assets on divorce, but with the absence of legal aid, you are more than likely have to resolve any financial dispute through mediation rather than being able to fight for legal rights. Long-term maintenance orders are becoming increasingly rare. Nearly half of marriages break down and women are often left in a fairly dire situation even if they are given some assets. Giving up your job will have huge consequences whether you are married or not and should not be taken lightly or in the belief that you will be okay because you are married.

shouldwestayorshouldwego · 20/06/2018 12:26

In a few years your dc will be at school. Having your feet firmly in the door now means that in a few years you might be able to pick up the 7-3 shift, do does school drop off, you collect.

Definitely keep your job, also remember that you keep a greater proportion of your income because you don't pay tax and NI. It is not as much 70:200 rather 70:140, plus he got to spend time with his dd. In fact it makes more sense to increase your earnings to around £800 pcm so you are just into the NI bracket but not paying tax. Decrease his earnings slightly if necessary to cover childcare or use his wages with childcare vouchers which are more tax efficient. As a family unit you would be £300 better off if you earnt £300 extra a month whereas you would only be £200 better off a month if he earnt an extra £300.

I would go for the financial angle, not that you aren't right with the equality and you need your job for long term security, but cold hard cash and figures will probably convince him more.

Racecardriver · 20/06/2018 12:25

Also not sure why you have posted in feminism, this isn't really about your sex is it?

Racecardriver · 20/06/2018 12:23

While the suggestions that you stay at home are ridiculous-your DP doesn't earn enough for the luxury of a SAHW- you have been quite unreasonable. Your DP earns much more than you do so the loss of his job would have a far worse impact on your family so it really should be a priority. If you want your job to come first then you need to earn more.

MrsDarcyIwish · 20/06/2018 12:15

Stick to your guns, op, respectfully and firmly, and keep coming back here for support if necessary.

Regarding your long-term financial situation, now is the time to start thinking and planning for the future.

You love your job and are good at it but are on minimum wage and are limited in the number of hours you can do for the next few years. Is moving up the pay scale a possibilty where you are? If not immediately, perhaps in a couple of years? Does your company have management trainee schemes, that sort of thing? This sort of opportunity might only be available on a full-time contract, but it could be worth looking into. Or perhaps a supervisory or training role for new staff?

MagicFajita · 20/06/2018 12:15

I'm glad you're going to put your foot down op.

Even if you were willing to give up your job there must be a few conditions , you must get married , he must put away the amount you've lost in pension contributions in an account in your name and he must agree/put away money for potential retraining for when you do return to work as you will have missed plenty and may not be as employable. Also you want the same amount in spends each month (your spends are not for the baby , they are for you) , as your contribution is as valid as his.

If he's happy to do all of that then you will transfer a portion of your personal allowance to him to help boost your family income and you will look after your joint child while he has the freedom to earn as he pleases.

I personally wouldn't give up my job without these conditions being agreed to.

BettyDuMonde · 20/06/2018 12:12

Also, regarding maintaining financial autonomy for the long term despite the current imbalance in incomes (due to his work being prioritised):

Always keep an eye on the housing situation - don’t allow your rights to your home to become secondary to his rights. If you are renting, be sure your name is always on a tenancy agreement, if you own, make sure your name is on the deeds. Whenever you move house, make sure your name is there.

This isn’t out of mistrust, I don’t say this out of paranoia. Even if you are together happily ever after it’s really important for ensuring your status as equal in the relationship - it’s not you ‘under his roof’.

(At the moment, it’s best for our family for me to stay at home and just do a bit of freelance. However, I never worry about the income/power balance because I have the enormous luxury of owning our house outright, in just my name Wink)

DisturblinglyOrangeScrambleEgg · 20/06/2018 12:04

I am 23 and work in a high street coffee chain so minimum wage, earnings arn't great.

OK, but it's something, it's NI contributions, it's probably a pension, it's sick and maternity pay entitlement, and it's experience on your CV. As it's a national chain, then there are probably places to go within the chain for greater responsibility and money as and when that becomes possible - it's worth it.

I thank all my stubborn stars that I kept working when I had the kids - sure, it was pretty relentless while they were babies, but a few years on it all gets easier, and I still have my hand in and can earn a fair wage.

Original poster
WhiteCoyote · 20/06/2018 12:00

And yes, I do think we should be looking for childcare 2 days a week. His response has always been "well we work it ok around us" but the fact it it's not working ok anymore.

My family live 150 miles away and his FIL is in no way capable of looking after our active toddler. We have no other family (his aunt and uncle are elderly).

OP posts:
Original poster
WhiteCoyote · 20/06/2018 11:57

Thank you all so much for your responses. A lot of you have put into words what I have been feeling, but feel like I've been oversensitive or unreasonable on. I can't tell you what it feels like to know IANBU on these things.

I may be wrong, but would worry that he is being like this because he wants to force you to give up work, and that "mix-ups" and "last minute shifts" are going to keep happening. If they do, consider that they might not be so accidental...
One of my colleagues said pretty much exactly the same thing. She thinks he messes me around on purpose thinking I'll give in and quit my job. I feel you have a point - I don't think he's doing it consciously, but subconsciously, yes I do think this is happening.

No, we're not married, and to be honest I think the situation would be worse if we were - both of them would expect me to do a lot more wifework.

If FIL mentions it again, I'll cut the conversation short and tell him our finances are between us. This is hard as DP has a habit of over-involving him in things, lets FIL go through our paperwork etc when he comes over (not while I'm in the room obviously).

I have very little in the way of both pension and savings and it scares me, a lot. This has also been a factor in me returning to work. I am 23 and work in a high street coffee chain so minimum wage, earnings arn't great. DP has a licenced job and earns almost £12 an hour.

PP you are all correct in saying both him and FIL can only see the short term saving (£200 vs £70) and I'm sorry to say that I have let them grind this into me and it makes me feel guilty - often. Thank you for pointing this out to me, that what I'll get in the long term will be worth much more.

I will write all these very valid points down and insist I sit down with him and go through them with him (without him interrupting for a change). It's given me a lot of courage and hopefully I won't descend into angry tears again Smile

OP posts:
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