World Health Organisation ICD 11 on trans people

Oops, sorry Moss you are correct - it is in both categories.

Without wishing to shut anything down, this isn't the trans board, so can I ask what relevance this thread has to the furtherance of the rights of women and girls?

It's not, I don't think? It's under "sexual health" along with categories like "paraphilic disorders"

Actually, had a look at ICD 11; ‘gender incongruence’ is still listed under “mental, behavioural and neurodevelopmental disorders”

OldCrone the point I am trying to make is that there is no objective marker of someone being born ‘in the wrong body’. The only way a disorder can be diagnosed is if the person reports that they believe they have been born in the wrong body and are distressed about it. Therefore I am not entirely sure I agree with the WHO argument that it’s not just about how the person feels. It is entirely about how the person feels. Yes, liking football instead of dolls is not sufficient to bring on a diagnosis of gender dysphoria but any diagnosis of of gender dysphoria must involve the patient saying ‘I believe I was born in the wrong body’.

Trans might not be classified as a mental health disorder but we are regularly told that it is comorbid/strongly associated with mental health disorders - after all mere mention of the words ‘woman’ and ‘menstruation’ seems to be sufficient to make them suicidal.

I find it interesting that it seems to exclude all the trans people who have no desire to alter their sex characteristics.

Thanks SomeDyke but surely it is nearly always based on the trans person’s own perception of their body and their own feeling that they are the ‘wrong sex’?

Doesn't this require a belief in a soul which is somehow separate from the body?

Thanks SomeDyke but surely it is nearly always based on the trans person’s own perception of their body and their own feeling that they are the ‘wrong sex’? There aren’t any objective markers of ‘genuine trans’ other than listening to and taking seriously the narrative of those who suffer from gender dysphoria. I don’t think anyone is ever diagnosed with being trans if they do not themselves believe they are trans. Whereas other conditions like pneumonia, depression, bipolar disorder, broken leg, can all be diagnosed regardless of whether the patient perceives themselves to be suffering from this.

"Oh, and also note that it excludes gender incongruence from paraphilic disorders."
I think you'll find it is the other way round. Plus gender incongruence has a strong component of dysphoria in the listings I skimmed. Plus 2 years as regards children.

"What do they mean when they say that gender variant behaviour and preferences are not sufficient to give a diagnosis? "

A boy has to do/exhibit more than just wanting to wear dresses, play with dolls, and start netball. Although the preferences as regards toys/activites/friends is still listed under childhood incongruence, because I presume they think it is one way that a child indicates their desire to be the other gender. But not sufficient on its own. Note also the 'two years'.

gendered behaviour and gender identity are not the same thing

And the science which demonstrates that gender identity is an objective, tangible thing separate to absorbing gender stereotypes from society is......?

What do they mean when they say that gender variant behaviour and preferences are not sufficient to give a diagnosis?

Also, if it is a health condition, how is it not a mental health condition? Surely any dysphoria refers to mental health and a feeling of mental distress? I am not trying to criticise, but surely the basis of the condition is psychological rather than physical?

Can you define gender identity?

Would be interested in the views of any of our gender critical trans posters on this.

Wakame I've not read the link and don't have time right now- please could you clarify if transgender ism (or whatever I'm supposed to call it) is classified as a disease then if it's in a document about diseases?! Surely that's not right?!