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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Very basic, obvious examples of male privilege please?

362 replies

tigersox · 18/06/2018 19:21

Examples every man will experience. Undeniable and obvious

I'm trying to make male privilege simple to a friend who feels us feminists have gone too far.

Thanks Grin

OP posts:
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clumsyduck · 19/06/2018 12:33

Sorry my post is maybe unclear re crossing road there were 2 sets of 2 men .

2 stood on my side and 2 at opposite side of crossing

Middleoftheroad · 19/06/2018 12:30

@Cats your example is valid indeed. The males in my house always got more.

I went to a carvery with my father in law. His wife fillled a tiny plate and he a large one. He then proceeded to gasp and comment at any female in the queue who dared to pile their food up like his. He even pointed. My mother in law was clearly starving yet has been trained to have small portions then go on about how full she is. I don't get it.

Needless to say I piled my plate up high.

Maybe it's just me, but men always seem to get served first in bars too.

clumsyduck · 19/06/2018 12:30

Something a pp on here said about moving out the way for men just reminded me of something that pissed me right off the other day crossing a busy road .

At a pedestrian crossing 2 men on the same side of the crossing as me stood next to each other at one side of the path ( next to the button you press ) me right at the other side ( next to the other button) so a big space between us .
2 men opposite decide to chance it during a small gap in traffic and go before the traffic lights go red and have to do fast walk/jog thing . I see them heading towards me so I stood my ground but then moved at the last minute as clearly they were aiming right at me rather than the massive gap they could have gone through .

Then the Lights go red , traffic all stopped and the two men next to me proceed to cross the road diagonally at a slightly faster pace than me so that by the time we reach the other side they cut directly Infront of me and I have to move . They are oblivious chatting away .

Why??? I was really mad . Small thing really but just so rude and so typical

starsinyourpies · 19/06/2018 12:19

Oh yes DH and I both worked part time at one stage. DH got questions: how will they manage at work? Will this impact your career? I got: how will you manage being away from the children so much? Will they be ok at nursery? Shouldn't you wait until they're in school?

At the time I was earning approx 7 x DH's salary. Lots of tongue biting on that done.

starsinyourpies · 19/06/2018 12:16

Totally agree with 'working mother', a peer (male) described someone in his team to me as a working mother and I asked if he described himself as a working father. Turns out he meant she worked part time apparently. He is a lovely guy very equal parent, wife travels a lot with work yet this stuff is so ingrained!

sar302 · 19/06/2018 10:39

Don't know why asterisks have appeared! Stupid keyboard!

sar302 · 19/06/2018 10:26

Tigersox - fair enough, but that in itself is also another example of male privilege you can give him. As the woman you have to (or feel you have to) do the work to help him understand** his own privilege. No man is having to help women understand his position in the world.

I don't think male privilege is inherently a bad thing about someone, I think it just... is... if you see what I mean? I have white privilege. It doesn't make me inherently a bad person (unless I leave it I examined), it just makes me white.

If your friend is striving to educate himself, then fair play to him! You're correct in that even the nicest men are not immune. I continue to have conversations with my (actually stunningly amazing in all other areas) husband, about the mental load involved in house work.

We get there slowly!

RadicalFern · 19/06/2018 09:47

Something they need to buy every month for health reasons is not taxed as a luxury item.

Yes, that luxury of not bleeding into my clothes,

tigersox · 19/06/2018 09:38

Male privilege - getting a woman to go on a woman's forum, to get a load of opinions from other women and present them to him, instead of bothering to self-question / educate himself.

@sar302 that would be, but my friend didn't. I posted initially without telling him then told him to read and join up, I posted his viewpoint as he wasn't keen to join mumsnet but he's reading.

I don't think though that he holds an opinion that many men (particularly younger men) don't also share and need their eyes opened on. It's obvious to us as we experience it.

I do think he's lovely - just needs educating on why we haven't gone too far and why we still need feminism. If I didn't think there was hope, I wouldn't try Wink

OP posts:
ADarkandStormyKnight · 19/06/2018 09:18

Re more homeless/rough sleeping men, it’s because women are at risk of exploitation and sexual violence. Some get exploited (eg “sex as rent”) because those options are available to them and they are desperate, and some thankfully get housed because of the risk.

beenandgoneandbackagain · 19/06/2018 09:02

cats not trivial. I felt so liberated when I realised that I could have the best jacket potato and not have to automatically give it to my husband.

FermatsTheorem · 19/06/2018 08:37

Cats not a trivial example at all (we had a whole thread on this once, it was very interesting).

catsmother · 19/06/2018 08:35

Food, bloody food!

Unbelievably, in establishments such as cafes, restaurants and pubs where a man and woman might choose the same dish and therefore pay the same, there are still some places who think it somehow acceptable to give men a larger portion. Now, I accept that plating up isn't always 100% reliable and that items like steaks, chops etc can differ in size but I have actually sat there while the server giggles and states they've given my partner a 'few extra' chips/potatoes/whatever. I always call this out when it's blatant as I think it's outrageous that the purchasing power of my ££ is somehow less than his. It's nothing to do with greed but everything to do with respect and treating paying customers equally.

Along similar lines, and it pains me to say that it's often women who do this, how many of you have had meals at home with family or friends and see that men are automatically given larger portions. Okay, we could argue all we like about men's frames generally being larger and their calorie requirement therefore being greater too but it doesn't always follow they are feeling especially hungry on a given day, or conversely, that a woman isn't feeling ravenous. In other words, individuals aren't asked how much they'd like or not - and men's plates are simply piled high regardless of size or appetite. Similarly, the perceived 'best bits' of a meal are very often offered up to the men at the table first (the choicest slices of meat, the pork crackling, the skin off the rice pudding - doesn't matter what it is, you get the gist) …. thus reinforcing that they are somehow more deserving. I have had to point out to my MIL that although I might not want to eat a whole turkey drumstick at Xmas I would quite like some dark meat on my plate (didn't go down well) and no doubt others would too.

I'm kicking myself as I write this as in the overall scheme of things it might sound petty (particularly compared to some of the more serious examples of male privilege already described) - after all, I get fed, what's my problem? But while food is a necessity it also has significant social connotations attached to it. As a guest, you get a warm fuzzy glow when someone's gone to the trouble of cooking you a nice meal. But when other - male - guests seem to benefit more from the occasion it does make you feel somewhat 'less'. And that's it …. it's cumulative, all these small things - which in absolute isolation might just be an annoyance - add up to something far more significant and disturbing.

FermatsTheorem · 19/06/2018 08:30

Ha ha, yes, nailed it sar. The TL:DR for this thread, OP, is your "friend" is an unrepentant sexist arse who is almost certainly beyond help, life is too short and you should bin him and spend time with nicer people.

sar302 · 19/06/2018 08:25

Male privilege - getting a woman to go on a woman's forum, to get a load of opinions from other women and present them to him, instead of bothering to self-question / educate himself.

bd67th · 19/06/2018 08:23

@Clairetree1

men are more likely to be murdered than women.

By who? The murder fairy? Men commit over 90% of violent crime. That they murder us at a rate of three per fortnight as well as murdering each other is men's problem to sort out. The kind of man who murders is not going to listen to women, but he might listen to other men.

Men are around 10 times more likely to end up sleeping rough than women

There isn't a homelessness fairy either, so perhaps an analysis of why this happens would be in order? Pro-tip: the answer is unlikely to be "because feminists exist".

MorrisZapp · 19/06/2018 08:18

You can cheat on your wife and society, including women, will blame the woman you slept with.

UpstartCrow · 19/06/2018 08:11

He's not a lovely guy. He hasn't 'checked with other women,' you are being played.
Stop playing the game.

FermatsTheorem · 19/06/2018 08:10

What happened, euro? I hope she didn't! (And yes I totally get what you're saying - that even if they didn't force her to wear one in the end, the mere suggestion bolloxed up her mental preparation.)

eurochick · 19/06/2018 07:05

We had a meeting at work with a Saudi client. The male senior team member told the very junior woman working on the matter that she might need to wear a hijab to the meeting. She came to me (senior woman in the team) to discuss as she wasn't comfortable. The men attending the meeting could focus on preparing for the substance of meeting, rather than weighing up if they should cover their hair against their wishes to keep a client happy.

Middleoftheroad · 19/06/2018 06:44

*So his fear of being misjudged or mocked is very real and our fear of being assaulted or perved over isn’t hmm

Sorry to repeat the quote, but that example sums it up: ^Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them.^

Middleoftheroad · 19/06/2018 06:38

To not be sexually harrassed or assaulted. This story is in today's news:
'Shocking' level of sexual harassment at music festivals - www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-44518892

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 19/06/2018 05:40

Yay Clairetree1 saves the day and comes along to tell us men have it hard too

And spectacularly misses the point of this thread

Clairetree1 · 19/06/2018 03:55

men are more likely to be murdered than women.

Men are around 10 times more likely to end up sleeping rough than women

Its not all one way

bd67th · 19/06/2018 03:11

'Lots of women like being stared at - it validates them and is a compliment. Feminism has gone too far when it says men shouldn't stare at women'

When I was nine, I was in a mixed school changjng room getting changed. The other kids and the teacher had gone. I already had breasts and periods and I refused to change with boys around, hence why I waited. Two older boys came along the corridor. As they came, they stared at me. I fastened my shirt quickly and decided to wait until they'd gone before putting my skirt on and removing my PE shorts. They came into the changing room and took turns to grab and palpate my vulva. I froze. They laughed at my frozen shock. They then humiliated me by telling the other kids that I had pubic hair. 30'years later I can still hear their laughter and writing this makes my skin crawl.

It started with their stares.

Women are prey to men and staring exists to remind us of that. My cat stares at a mouse he is hunting and men are just the same as my cat when it comes to treating us as prey, without empathy. Staring provokes a panic response in me. The feelings of doormat handmaidens, who regard themselves so poorly that being prey seems like validation, do not trump my right to be safe and feel safe.

Men don't live in fear of being raped and murdered on their way home from work, women do and a man staring carries an implicit threat.

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