Why should we be made to lie?

Would the mods of a Man United supporters group force members to say "Spurs is the best team" because Spurs supporters told them to?

To be honest I don't even understand what I am allowed to say and not to say anymore. I carefully avoided all the acronyms and that but still got a strike.

Rat - what you seem to have been saying is that it 'being in the dictionary' somehow 'validates' fact.

No, it doesn't. The meaning of woman in the dictionary is validated by the fact an adult human being biologically has female dna.

It's the same as the GRC argument. Like having a GRC 'validates' biology. No it doesn't.

Orwellian Newspeak?

'a good many people' rat ?

ie the people who want it to apply to them, regardless of whether in reality it does?

Those who are aggressively taking over the original definition of female, 'cos they've 'worked very hard'?

If someone worked very, very hard to identify themselves as black, when they were indeed white, should we defend them because they've worked 'very hard on those fruits of labour' and 'restrict their access to resources' because of all that hard, hard work, they're black?

If I invent a new category of humanseahorse and work very very hard in getting other people to accept I'm a humanseahorse, is it fair that humans restrict my access to human resources because I worked very hard.? (Daily Mail sad-face as a humanseahorse)

Jesse Singal - interesting

Exscuse MNHQ.

Is it ok when talking about a person to use the terms male and female instead of man and woman?

Asking for a friend.

Okay....

spontaneous thanks!

Graham Linehan was challenged on twitter as to whether he believed that transwomen are women. He responded that in order to answer the question there would have to a definitions of the words transwomen and women on which both parties agreed.

I suspect MNHQ does not want to get sued as a result of posters saying the Joanne Bloggs is a man.
But surely if we had an agreed definition of certain words and posted subject to that definition a lawsuit would go nowhere.

So if I say that a famous person who considers themselves to be a woman is actually male, and I am using the agreed-in-advance definition of male as being of the sex class that produces sperm, then how could I or MNHQ be sued when it is objective fact?

Although some people make a distinction between transsexual as being someone who has had surgery and transgender as someone who has not necessarily undergone a physical transition.

Ahh stuff it then. Will stick to calling people male and female. Nice and easy seen as humans cannot change sex.

Oops - no rat - you see science still doesn't agree that they are women

Transwoman is a word in its own right. Do you think a seahorse is a type of horse?

You know oppression is to do with plundering the fruits of someone's labour and restricting their access to resources don't you? Okay, I'll stop it.

As far as I'm concerned, saying 'it's in the dictionary' is the same territory as 'but I have a GRC!! So it must be true that I'm a woman!'

Both have no objective meaning whatsoever

What about "woman definitely and ONLY means adult human female because that's what it says in the dictionary", when quite clearly that isn't what it means to a good many people?

Also nonsense?

Then we agree.

Although some people make a distinction between transsexual as being someone who has had surgery and transgender as someone who has not necessarily undergone a physical transition.

No, transsexual is not offensive. Nor is trans people or transgender people. Nor I presume is male to female trans person.

Just looked. Oxford states the meaning of transwoman to be a male to female transexual
The meaning of transexual according to Oxford is A person who emotionally and psychologically feels that they belong to the opposite sex.

So I may just ditch the transwoman/man and say transexual. Or is that a banned word too?

As far as I'm concerned, saying 'it's in the dictionary' is the same territory as 'but I have a GRC!! So it must be true that I'm a woman!'

Both have no objective meaning whatsoever

transwoman used to confuse me. i thought it meant a woman who didn't id as a woman. I think others are similarly not understanding the terminology. All you have to do is read newspaper comments about Man Friday and its clear many are getting the wrong end of the stick regarding much of the debate.

Words and meaning need to be clear. Semantics regarding a space or not doesn't clarify meaning for those outwith the critical thinking of FWR etc.

Best stick to facts. Woman, is adult human female.

Exactly Elen.

Surely the point about the dictionary is that it contains words used to describe things (And concepts) that are both real and not real.
The description of a unicorn will state that it's an imaginary creature for example, I suppose.

Transwoman is in the dictionary you say. I don't doubt it, I haven't looked it up, but I'll bet folding money it's not defined as meaning "adult human female" . But we are supposed to say it means that anyway, aren't we? That's the goal here. We all know it.

Oops - no rat - you see science still doesn't agree that they are women, so no, I won't be calling them that. If science finds new facts I might change my mind.
Until then, please stop oppressing me.

I'm ok with using "Transladies" , and a number of us gender critcal lesbians on Twitter have been using it for a while. Indicates their gender aspirations and the social role they're trying to play, without lying about their sex.

Language is malleable.

Scientific fact stays the same

Oh thank god, finally some sanity on the subject.

So if society broadly recognises transwomen as women in certain social settings, we can use that word if we want to, right? Because language is malleable?

And if the dictionary recognises a relatively new word, "transwoman", to describe what was previously known round here by an offensive acronym, that's probably okay too, right? Because no actual facts have been changed; the facts are exactly the bloody same. So the word is just the right word to describe that so that everyone knows what you're talking about, right?

I can't use TIM anymore so it looks like I can't distinguish between them. Maybe it doesn't matter - maybe it's better to just recognize them as the men that they are.

I won't be tying myself in knots though trying to work out what words I MAY use so that I don't offend people. It's completely crazy.