TransMen Inclusive Radical Feminist (TMIRC)

I prefer ‘PERF’ - ‘Penis Exclusionary Radical Feminists’ - it’s got nothing to do with being trans or not, really.

I just don’t want penis-havers in the women’s communal showers at the swimming baths.

(although I’m not sure I really qualify as rad fem yet. Inching closer to it day by day. For now I’m sticking with ‘Gender Atheist’ as my personal descriptor.

If you haven't seen this article on how trans men experience sexism, then it's worth a read. Really gives an insight as to the role of socialisation. They notice the sexism because they know what it's like to grow up with it. It's a little frustrating because of the liberal use of confusing sex and gender, and phrases like "when I was in the female body" (because, all due respect, it's still a female body, but has been virilised with external androgens)...

The most eye-opening quotes:

Many trans men I spoke with said they had no idea how rough women at work had it until they transitioned. As soon as they came out as men, they found their missteps minimized and their successes amplified. Often, they say, their words carried more weight: They seemed to gain authority and professional respect overnight. They also saw confirmation of the sexist attitudes they had long suspected: They recalled hearing female colleagues belittled by male bosses, or female job applicants called names.

For Milan, male friendship has been mostly positive, but occasionally alarming. While he says most cisgender men he meets are fairly respectful of women even behind closed doors, he’s also noticed what he describes as a culture of toxic masculinity. “I’ve heard men say things about slapping a woman or cheating on women in the most brutal ways and think it’s okay,” Milan says.

“Being privy to the conversations that men have amongst themselves really does give me an indication of how they think about women,” he says. “And sometimes it can be really scary.”

time.com/transgender-men-sexism/

It's like 'claiming they are women'

Well they are. Not much we can do about that. Don't shoot the messenger.

By erasing trans men's identity and claiming they are women, you're the opposite of trans inclusive.

Why is said identity so fragile that it can be "erased" by anyone who doesn't agree?

Answer-because the identity is a delusion and depends on other people lying to "validate" it.

'Erasing identity'?

You mean articulating the knowledge that they are in material fact, female, rather than lying to them and to everyone else about it?

The only thing being erased is biology and truth.

FIFAF
Feminism is for all females?

By erasing trans men's identity and claiming they are women, you're the opposite of trans inclusive.

What's that film with Sandra Bullock? You know the one where her identity is stolen? The Net I think.

OP - have you done all that with every man's identity? You naughty girl.

“When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less.”
“The question is,” said Alice, “whether you can make words mean so many different things.”
“The question is,” said Humpty Dumpty, “which is to be master—that’s all.”

Can someone explain to me what the 'rational' part means?

I see/read nothing whatsoever 'rational' about any of this.

So has the word 'rational' got a different meaning when related to this topic?

Women are not human shields

This! This a million times

I think Boffin makes an important point, I did not know that about GB. I guess the question is whether he would have made high office if he had only his own means to depend on (and he may have done so, I have not read his autobiography).

Fighting the patriarchy is exhausting. But I think the spike in rapid onset gender dysphoria among young women is about a number of factors when girls are at a vulnerable stage. Huge academic pressure combined with gendered barriers, toxic heterosexuality (pornified expectations from young men) and a transgender movement which says here is a way out.

Although the best people to comment on cause are gender identity clinics, the interesting question is where (medically speaking) the concept of gender identity came from (a minority with body dysphoria) and why it has taken hold as the condition du jour.

What is society doing to young women that opting out of being a woman is the preferred option?
And in my next thought I remembered the point made by an academic recently that women could meet and talk about their rights in the early 1900s without fear, and that they cannot now.

But he was Shadow chancellor in a government in waiting when they met?

I grant you that it’s a reasonable question about politics for the wealthy though.

Here’s another unpopular opinion. People are unduly worrying about which gender they relate most to because a. Our society is hyper-sexualised, and b. We haven’t got more important things to worry about, for example whether foreign powers are about to invade and slaughter our children, or whether there will be a total crop failure causing wholesale starvation and death. Everything is, after all, relative.

I don’t think being a trans person is the same as being someone whose sex or gender has remained obvious and constant, and healthcare needs are going to be different, as are social ones. That’s not to say trans people aren’t of equal value, but you clearly can’t simply morph into another sex or gender in the equivalent way that’s been suggested. And I don’t see what is wrong with saying that. In an ideal world sex and gender would matter a lot less than they do anyway.

Women are not human shields.

FtM people are included in FEMinism because they're FEMale, Widow. The clue is in the name. Women suffering from sex based oppression cannot "identify" out of it.

the

That is strange? It’s such a non-threatening, descriptive term

I would add that the next post to mine wasn’t censored and it said words to the effect of ‘these Somalis coming over here and taking all our jobs, what are you going to do about black people then Gordon’ (with more text speak). At least she didn’t call him ‘hun’.

By erasing trans men's identity and claiming they are women, you're the opposite of trans inclusive.

What does “erasing trans men’s identity” mean? And in what way are they not women?

Being a TIRF makes sense to me - trans inclusionary rational feminist

The 'rational' being including trans men who need sex based health services and trans women who need the same protection from men as women do.

Yes, I did. It’s a question of whether cabinet positions are really available to those without significant independent means. I think it’s democratically important it’s more inclusive and not having a seven figure sum to derive a second or third income from shouldn’t preclude high office.

Tell me you didn’t really ask that Boffin ?

By erasing trans men's identity and claiming they are women, you're the opposite of trans inclusive.

Quite aside from the acronym debate, I thought rather less of Justine that she’s allowed herself to pander to these men quite clearly seeking to devoice women.

I think this site may be going down the Netmums censorship rabbit hole (I was censored on there for asking Gordon Brown about whether he could only afford to be a serious politician because his wife had a private income, an example of high level politics increasingly being the domain of the wealthy).

It always makes me sad to type 'transmen'. For the most part I feel very sorry for what they have done to themselves, or want to do. Instead of becoming feminists, and fighting patriarchy, they seem to have the "if you can't beat them, join them" attitude.

And yes, frustrating no tango india foxtrot allowed any more. I think there was wording in the rules not to refer to sex, so 'transgender female' seems out the door as well?