Trans rights supporters -can we please unite on the cervical cancer issue

I'm sorry but this is cleaning up a mess that transactivism created, and not just an isolated mess either. It obtain across all health issues and can only be resolved by transactivists letting it be known that health is more important than pronouns.

They could do this so quickly and easily.but they refuse, they derail, they blame feminists, they find excuses. This should be a wake up call.

It's ridiculous that we're still having this argument.

If there were men who died of cancer of the vas deferens, and a technique for screening for it, then you bet your ass the language would be aimed at MEN. We wouldn't use "people with a vas deferens," in a drive to be inclusive to trans women who haven't had genital surgery.

This is the same thing. It's trying to be specific, but ends up confusing more people.

This circular language is profoundly unhelpful - if you don't know what a vas deferens is or whether you have one, that advert means nothing to you. Use men and women, and add "and people with " if it means THAT much to you. FFS.

Also, if you look at CRUK website, they write the following:
"One tweet sparked debate around the inclusive language we selected, which led journalists to cover the discussions on Twitter. Some people were against our choice, others were supportive."

I can only think of ONE lobby group that would have pushed for this kind of language... And it isn't a women's group. To suggest this has NOT come from trans activists is to deny wholesale what's going on.

scienceblog.cancerresearchuk.org/2018/06/16/news-digest-trial-to-test-lung-cancer-vaccine-cervical-screening-language-prostate-cancer-spit-test-and-ai-for-the-nhs/

Garam

To be honest the manufactured outrage by transphobes is bordering on insane.
Saying everyone with a cervix, is literally.... wait for it..... EVERYONE with a cervix.

Ok Garam you have managed somehow to miss all the posts quite eloquently explaining why, no, not everyone knows what a cervix is.

You must be quite young not to know how poorly taught female biology has been in this country. I'd probably had three smear tests before I learned the word. I thought they were scraping the inside of the vagina.

Also English is not the first language of many people. So, no, they won't know about the cervix either.

Publicity for screening should cover all bases. Women and anyone with a cervix.

Thats what she said!!!!

Wait

Thats not what she said!!!!

Stupid copy and paste

However to blame yet again, the trans community for the wording chosen by a charity is silly. Yes I know it will be posited it was pressure from trans groups, as always there is zero evidence of this

I agree also. Which is why the OP has asked for unity. And why all trans women and men should advocate for health care which is inclusive for all without using the term cis - which very few people seem to understand.

You all know Spartacus was a man, right?

What thewrongtrousers said

Truly inclusive language for cervical cancer would be "women, trans men and anyone with a cervix" . For prostate cancer "men, trans women and anyone who has a prostate gland"

Absolutely agree with this. But for all that CRUK are trying to be inclusive of trans people, I suspect that this suggestion would not go down well with those they are trying to include. Trans women will not want to be lumped into the same category as men, nor will they thank CRUK for highlighting the fact that they still have male reproductive organs - a fact that most seem to want kept quiet.

Could this be why only the women's health campaign has been altered?

I'm right behind you on this Betty

It hurts no one to include "women" and it hurts no one to include the additional wording.

Absolutely agree that this is a problem Feminists are having to deal with that has been created by the way that TRAs are operating.

Believe it or not, we have a shit load of other issues to deal with, even without this problem. Not everything is about being trans believe it or not.

As for the post-op trans turning up for smears and going to see gynaecologists - I don't think is a particularly common experience, if anything because I know that many of those that want self ID have in tact penis'. But it does add more weight to the argument that for some this is all just a big game. Trivialising the female anatomy to satisfy their need to have the novelty of 'the female experience'.

This move is to please trans groups and is due to transactivist cultural pressure. To suggest otherwise is potty.

It’s not just about the smear though is it - can they mark a male’s record smear required?

And what about the case a little while ago where a trans patient died unnecessarily because the score was calculated and used for the incorrect sex - I believe it was related to the liver, the level for one sex means organ failure and for the other didn’t. I can’t find the details now but I’m sure someone will.

The fact is, your sex does impact your healthcare - it’s one of many reasons that people are fighting against the current desire by some to ignore natal sex.

Hilarious exchange up thread about invalidating and validating identities. On a thread about over complicating language

arf.

Once a trans woman has had bottom surgery, they should definitely regularly see a gynecologist. (sic) Think about it: A post-op trans woman isn't any different than a cisgender woman that has had her reproductive organs removed.

I've thought about it, for a nano second, and a trans woman with bottom surgery is totally different to a woman who has had to have their reproductive organs removed - something a woman doesn't take lightly or has to do so in order to save their life.

The equivalence would be that if a woman had to have a double mastectomy then she would be a trans man who had top surgery.

Total fail on logical thinking.

5.1 million people in the UK are considered ‘functionally illiterate’.

I will do some digging tomorrow to try and ascertain how many of them have cervixes.

Cancer Research UK shouldn’t be doing anything that makes it harder to access vital information, hence my personal lobbying for ‘women AND (designation to be decided by those affected by it directly) to be the wording.

literacytrust.org.uk/parents-and-families/adult-literacy/

However to blame yet again, the trans community for the wording chosen by a charity is silly. Yes I know it will be posited it was pressure from trans groups, as always there is zero evidence of this

I agree. I said so a few pages back.

LaSqurrl - I don't know where that quote is from but I'd put money on someone getting Transmen mixed up with Transwomen.

@garam: Saying everyone with a cervix, is literally.... wait for it..... EVERYONE with a cervix.

I have known women who, despite being barely literate, were raising kids. I have known women who spoke so little English that they had their kids translate for them. These women would not have understand that they had a cervix. As SMG said, there is a duty on healthcare providers to provide information in plain english. CRUK are currently failing on that. Adding "women" remedies that failure. Kindly check your educational privilege.

"Tango India Foxtrot"
^ LOL

In trying to find that lost bookmark, I did find this one:

Do trans women go to gynecologists?
Once a trans woman has had bottom surgery, they should definitely regularly see a gynecologist. Think about it: A post-op trans woman isn't any different than a cisgender woman that has had her reproductive organs removed.

Huh?
No, surgically constructed 'vaginas' are not at all the same. Completely different issues going on, completely different tissue structure. And definitely, zero cervix involved.

I agree with you bd and by 'you' I did not mean you. You are doing what transactivists should be doing: trying to help sort out a problem they created.

To be fair, I think it’s simply one of many reasons to choose one charity over another.

I’d not paid much attention before now, but in light of this discussion The Eve Appeal are ticking my personal boxes (pun intended) at present.

Garam: feminists came late to this particular 'party'. Transactivists have been telling kids and adults alone that nothing is more important than identity, pronouns, vskiduation and the compliance of others. Don't blame this on feminists. We are dealing with the fall out while transactivists just keep on complaining about everything.

@Pratchet You are trying to claim victimhood, and blame feminists, for a situation entirely created by transactivism.

As a frequent gender-critical poster to these boards, I am not likely to blame feminism for the situation that transmen find themselves in. I only call them "transmen" because the new rules prevent "Tango India Foxtrot". My point, that as biological females their wellbeing is in-scope for feminism, stands. We don't turn our backs on other females in trouble, even though that trouble is not our fault. And, yes, they are victims, they are the victims of TRA lies that they can identify out of female reproductive class oppression. Until they desist, assuming that they do, they still need cervical smears

It hurts no one to expand the language to make it clear what a cervix is.

this I agree with, and some nuanced language change requests is one thing.

However to blame yet again, the trans community for the wording chosen by a charity is silly. Yes I know it will be posited it was pressure from trans groups, as always there is zero evidence of this.

But more importantly the ridiculous dogpiling onto cancer charities and threats of withholding future donations is a far bigger issue than anything from the trans side in this discussion.