Trans rights supporters -can we please unite on the cervical cancer issue

Yes. And if TRA give permission to relax the obsession with validation, the problem would disappear.

but it will need transpeople to live in the real world and not just the one controlled by self validation.

Exactly. Thank you homeonthehills.

I object to the phrase 'transmen' because they are not men. Transpeople is better. It also covers those who have had cervical cells implanted with penile inversion.

Well personally I don't think you should be able to change your 'gender marker' (natal sex) on your NHS records. Or on your birth certificate.

The only reason we are tying ourselves in knots is because of what has been permitted so far.

The NHS sends invitations to people depending on what sex they are.

Thinking you are the opposite sex or neither sex or even bloody otherkin does not change either reality, or the existence or otherwise of your cervix

I advised an intersex woman , who was one of the leading campaigners on cervical screening , and faught tirelessly against cuts to G&O services

she came on here and was destroyed , subsequently she retired from all campaigns , and gave up all her charity work

she was called little bird on here , her and her husband had worked tirelessly for the NHS for decades

our local maternity unit closed , because she was the only woman brave enough to stand up for all women

oh and by the way she was anti self ID

Kettle, I was routinely asked for smears and mammograms and the first time I was asked for either I talked to my doctor to ask what to do.

Was told mammograms are essential and cervical smears not needed and was told the records would reflect that need henceforth.

And did.

This was years ago.

I am sure with sense and thought it is much easier to do this today.

but it will need transpeople to live in the real world and not just the one controlled by self validation.

Homefromthehills - thank you for sharing your personal account. Your voice is welcome and necessary.

.....
In this particular instance, it seems to me that everyone is being done a disservice. No matter our political beliefs, surely none of us want people to be unnecessarily excluded from anything relevant to their bodies that will help keep them healthy?

Biology cannot be identified out of.

Live however you choose, without bringing harm to others, but please, stay safe and be healthy.

Don’t let your desire to gain woke cookies put you, your family members or your friends lives at risk.

women, and trans folk with a cervix" should do just fine

You see, this what baffles me.

We are not even asking for CRUK to just put women. But actually include and add one more word!

Will this cost millions?

Will it take up a huge amount more space?

Two more letters than 'men' which they have no problem including for prostate cancer campaigns.

Is this going to collapse the whole of CRUK?

What possible justification could there be other than the word 'woman' itself offends 0.03 of a population?

And they pander to it.

I'd like to know if it is trans people who are those that do not take up their offers for smears. I will look at the specifics of the stats.

If it is, then perhaps that partly explains it. But why not then explain this is who they are targeting and make the campaign specific to them....?

Absolutely nothing wrong with cervical checks being phrased as for women and trans men with a cervix and prostate checks as to men and transwomen with a prostrate.

Might actually help transmen and transwomen ask about their anatomy post surgery or hormone treatment as I get the impression too many are in denial of physical reality and what is actually possible these days.

It may not be obvious for those who physically transition either - because many might assume removal of either occurs during transition - to their detriment.

I had no idea about the prostrate thing as it was never explained by anyone. When I found out I asked my doctor. Why wouldn't you?

Since I went through the medical checks required for transition as in and needed to get a GRC today it has never been off my records so there was always a check.

So I know that risk is far lower but still needing to be added to routine blood tests now and then.

I have always made a point of ensuring GPs know I am transsexual on registering at a new practice as it can take time for them to catch up or even bother to read the file. It is surely just common sense.

As an aside it also shows another negative of the push for self ID and the removal of medical gatekeeping.

It puts the onus on the patient, not their doctor, to ensure correct facts are on file for others to see when potentially important.

I really do not think that is wise the way things are going.

People who have a cervix are women.

Some people with cervices disagree with you; should they not be made aware of their being at risk of cervical cancer? Or must you remind them how stupid you think they're being before you find their lives worth saving?

I disagree SMG. I think treating transmen like this is suggesting they are too stupid to know that they need smears.

I think the cervix wording is ok if used as part of several campaigns. We need to get the smear numbers up and to do that you need multiple targeted campaigns:

Transmen - you still need a smear!

Women - have a smear! (Lower literacy/biology)

Multi language campaigns.

You can request a female nurse (A concern for many including some religions and abuse sufferers).

You can have someone in with you.

Having a smear does not take your vaginity. And even if you're not sexually active you still need one (risks are much reduced but still possible)

I do think the campaign is good in that it does the step by step of what happens. And what it feels like. Should maybe mention lube is used to make it easier too! But there's a lot of people don't know what a cervix is, including the "we don't talk about things like that!" generation, so we need to make it clearer.

What about changing it to ‘adult human female’?

women, and trans folk with a cervix" should do just fine

Agree

The word woman should absolutely be kept in but I agree that including “and anyone with a cervix” is fine.

If the exclusion of the word women isn't trying to appeal to transpeople who are they trying to appeal to or not offend? Women who no longer have a cervix?

Is there a petition to CRUK to have the word woman reinstated in their CC campaign?

I just did a bit of searching and Macmillan say on p24 of this document that some penile inversion techniques use the glans to make a pseudo-cervix and that these transwomen need smears.

So "women, and trans folk with a cervix" should do just fine.

Betty an excellent point

Has anyone asked Cancer Research UK for a copy of their impact assessment yet? Surely a) one must exist and if it doesn’t, that’s a problem and b) accessing it should be possible via a Freedom of Information request?

It seems to me that CRUK is pandering to a particular demographic: white middle class, quite possibly because the belief is they are more likely to make larger donations - wills as well as monthly.

It's cynical and dangerous.

Totally agree with kettle. Unless someone says Stop, this will go on and on. And the only people who have all the power right now are transactivists. They have the power to say Stop. Will they? No. They are happy to watch us dance.

I suspect that this suggestion would not go down well with those they are trying to include. Trans women will not want to be lumped into the same category as men, nor will they thank CRUK for highlighting the fact that they still have male reproductive organs - a fact that most seem to want kept quiet.

You know what, at some point there has to be a line.

At some point whether or not someone doesn't like a word someone has to say, so the fuck what?

It needs to be part of the EA - stating that in particular contexts, language needs to be understood by the majority of it is about their rights, needs or safety.

If cancer isn't that line I don't know what is.

Ok Garam you have managed somehow to miss all the posts quite eloquently explaining why, no, not everyone knows what a cervix is

To be fair to Garam they replied to my post and did take the point it hurts no one to expand the language to make it clear what a cervix is.

Badgers
No, they are NOT getting it mixed up at all. It's all about the TW, not the TM. Look at the language again: "A post-op trans woman isn't any different than a cisgender woman". It is what they believe. That surgical constructed genitalia is more or less, exactly what it is replicating.

Adult literacy is still a huge problem (and nothing whatsoever to do with immigration, in case anyone jumps on that bandwagon).

www.indy100.com/article/the-uk-has-one-of-the-lowest-literacy-and-numeracy-rates-in-the-developed-world--bkgu_g4NTg

Leaving primary school with a low literacy level should not be happening in the UK in the 21st century. However, the stats show that it does happen, which is depressing. CRUK should be acutely aware of this.

Until they that, we are merely firefighting until the next similar issue comes up, and we have to start all over again.