Would you have transitioned if you were a child today?

daim and juzzal, your argument is about "identity" lesbians isn't it.

Male born lesbians are "identity" lesbians.

One of you thinks that's ok, one doesn't.

We get it. Now stop bickering.

We did take the surgery and hormone free option. Thats what being a tomboy used to be called, and it was a big deal to reject the stereotypical feminine 'choice'.

Oh @JuzzaL you don't give up do you!

Lesbian: Female homosexual.

I am female, I am homosexual, I am therefore a lesbian.

Meh, I reckon if having 72 different Facebook genders comforts young people in their gender-non-conformity, I think that's cool. There are no hormone regimes or surgical requirements for naming one's relationship with traditional ideas of masculinity and femininity, as far as I know.

I think far from being transexual, many of us would probably have been some bizarre gender variant in our snowflake years; and possibly even a little better for it.

This thread has made me realise that a lot of people wanted to reject being female rather than particularly wanting to be male.

So if there was a surgery and hormone free non binary option would you have taken it? Rather than a full on transition?

Now I'm confused. Daimbars if you are biologically female, which you seem to be saying, then your civil partnership to another female makes you a lesbian.

But lesbians are, by definition, female homosexuals: biologically female people who engage in sex only with other biologically female people.

It's a sexual orientation, nothing to do with gender. So a biologically male person cannot be a lesbian. Saying so doesn't diminish anyone's relationship, but if you don't meet the definition of a group you're not a member of that group.

I am officially confused, Daimbars. Are you biologically female or is "being a lesbian" essentially a private label for what the world would call a heterosexual relationship?

Because if so I can quite see why JuzzaL objects. Lesbians are subject to all sorts of pressure, up to and including corrective rape and murder for being homosexual. Heterosexual relationships are privileged. Were I, a heterosexual, to claim to be a lesbian while my partner was biologically male, that would be dishonest and an affront to lesbians.

Like I said before daim, you were misunderstanding me on AGP. I could have been clearer I suppose but I don't see the need to NAMALT and NATALT in every post .......

Not me but I have a close friend who is a lesbian and now in her 40s. She told me as a child she would have taken the opportunity to transition as she had a preference for dressing in traditionally boys clothes and presenting as a boy. Now she is a very happy female and comfortable being a lesbian

It should be harmless but its again co-opted by the less harmless agenda isn't it?

With the demand for legal changes to accommodate "identity" it's a conformist movement. Being non conforming used to mean rejecting the establishment and bureaucrats, now it is demanding certificates for it. Not very rock and roll.

Blimey never thought I'd see myself nodding along to @Picassospaintbrush - wonders never cease. Sounds like an interesting meeting!

Hey @RatRolyPoly

Not much productive can come once a natal woman married to a natal woman cannot be a lesbian. Ho hum.

Well quite. My marriage is certainly not inclusive of men but apparently I'm not a real lesbian and have no right to call myself one!

Anyway moving on... it's interesting what Rat says about being non binary. Do GC feminists agree the non binary folk are generally pretty harmless? They wouldn't be able to get hormones or surgery so there would be no worries for parents of non binary teenagers around fertility etc.

I know the GC feminist view is it's special snowflake and it's irritating to use the pronoun 'they' but I see it as a harmless way of GNC teenagers to place their identity.

This lesbian knockabout argument went off at the meeting on Wednesday, If I can remember properly it went like this:

1. "sexual orientation" is an invented term used in campaigns for acceptance, pre campaigning it wasn't really a way gay and lesbian people described fancying people (this came from the older generation so I am inclined to accept their word for it);
2. you can be a lesbian even if you have had PIV sex, Shelia Jeffrey said this to great cheers so again, I am included to go along with that;
3. Bisexual again is a relatively new term for fancying both, and not synonymous with lesbians who have shagged men in the past. Try before you buy and all that, if you want to say you are a lesbian now you can;
4. Women own lesbian, and intend on keeping it.

It all got a bit shouty, but they all seem to be saying much of the same thing (excusing the very young loud person that called SJ a see you next Tuesday, however she explained dysphoria is present for her.

"Identifying" is the language matrix overlaid on top to make bodies irrelevant by genderology.

Once you remember the motive of "identifying" and the "gender identity" being taught to kids is to make fetish into a protected sexual orientation legally then it's all clearer.

If you can legally be both male and female whenever you like you can take your kink wherever you want with no questions asked.

Or perhaps not, we are still free to decide on the politics of this folks.

I am sure I've upset a few people with this post so this could be goodbye...

Lesbian: Female homosexual.

That being said, I think daim fits your criteria...

But anyway, subject of the thread and all that.

More

No I wouldn't have transitioned.
Growing up in the 80s, it was easier to be gender none conforming. I played football with the boys, climbed trees and wore jeans and tshirts mostly, but I also had dolls and played with make up too.
I knew I was a girl and was happy with that because I didn't encounter any limitations.
I still none conform now, I have short hair and dont wear make up but I wear dresses etc.
I have never felt a specific gender, ever. I must be fortunate to have not been pushed either way as a child.

Okay @JuzzaL we will have to agree to disagree. You say only lesbians who actively reject being part of the LGBT community are really lesbians and I say I am proud to be an L in the LGBT community.

My polite request still stands, please can you give over with the accusations.

Oh, I see I've come in at quite a tense moment. Not much productive can come once a natal woman married to a natal woman cannot be a lesbian. Ho hum.

Nope, not for a second. I was an outrageous tomboy and rejected pink and princesses from my very earliest memories of childhood. I pushed my way in with the boys every time I felt they had something I wanted, I cut my hair to an inch long, took up every rough sport I could find, preferenced "boys" subjects (even when I was better at "girls" stuff) and considered myself no different in mind from any boy out there which, strangely, showed me to be quite different from many girls...

But I did all these things, even from my very earliest memories, specifically because I knew I was a girl, not because I considered I might not be. I didn't want to do what I was told, I didn't want to take what I was given, and looking back it's tough to know even what I did like except to say that I wanted things all the more that I wasn't supposed to have.

So no, not me. I felt awkward and clunky and physically intrusive as a teenager, but boys didn't seem to have it easier with their inappropriate erections and the wet dreams; leaving sheets to be changed by their parents - teenaged cringe!

I might have gone for non-binary at that point, but as a label for my "I want whatever looks good from the gender menu" persona rather than anything else. And actually that might have helped me more easily understand my nascent relationship with gender stereotypes, who knows? It certainly may have helped me normalise it rather than feeling isolated and a little bit strange...

@JuzzaL I would like to politely ask you stop hounding me and accusing me of bullshitting on every thread I post on.

Literally every time I reference being gay you come on and accuse me of lying to try and discredit what I'm saying and it's getting really tiresome.

I have attached my conversion from civil partnership from marriage certificate as proof of my lesbian status. Can you stop with the accusations now please?

I was a speshul snowflake and would have done pretty much anything to get attention.

I’d like to think I’d have been ratted out before I did any damage, which is one of the things that concerns me most about self ID and the removal of gatekeeping. By all means identity / dress / etc as you wish where it doesn’t do any harm to yourself or others, but keep a gate where there is the potential for it to do so.