The “100,000 people alive” DUP claim - evidence?

My intention isn’t to troll, it’s a complicated subject and one I do struggle with mainly due to personal circumstances. In fact the whole reason I’ve gone down the MRA rabbit hole is pretty much thanks to this one issue. Maybe without context it’s impossible to engage without coming across as goady (and perhaps it’s goady even then?).

I am loath to talk about it in truth, but I am raising a child thanks to having been lied to about birth control, and rightly or wrongly it’s incredibly hard to hear I’m the devil of piece as I would never have consented to sex and/or would have used a condom if I had not been lied to.

I accept that women carry the physical risks of pregnancy, and it also feels to me an evil to either force a woman into parenthood or indeed to force a termination of an otherwise wanted child. Trouble is it also feels like an evil to force a man into a similar position. I don’t really expect a jot of sympathy and/or compassion, but I’m sure there is a way to square the circle re: men and women’s conflicting interests without coercing either.

They are happy to confirm 100000 forced pregnancies & 100000 forced births?

@voldermorticia

Upstart that’s an Irish case, not Northern Ireland. Iirc.

It was quite a while ago and my memory isn't great, but I think the girl did travel to have an abortion in England, and DNA was from the foetus was saved so the man could be prosecuted. Was it the X case?

It's totally different. The man is not putting his life at risk to have a baby in the same way the woman is.
If a man decides he doesn't want the pregnancy, it affects he physical state of the woman as it still leaves her either pregnant or having a abortion.
The woman's choice has no physical impact on the man (although it may have an emotional one)

Well, men don't give birth for one thing. The two aren't equivalent.

But talking to you is futile, you're here as a self declared men's rights activist to troll these boards.

True, although not all contraception is 100%. Surely the argument for contraception applies equally to women also?

Men who are not ready for fatherhood can take responsibility for contraception, and make it clear upfront before they have sex.

Don’t some of these same arguments track in defense of deadbeat dads? However when it’s men who want to absolve themselves of responsibility suddenly it’s entirely fair to point the gun in the room at men and I’ve even seen arguments for jail time. Should men have the right to say “I’m not ready at this point in my life for fatherhood” and have the right to walk away?

I'm more interested in: how many women died? How many of those kids had to be put into care? How many were in poverty because of this? The mental and physical health of these women? Do they not matter!?

Of course they don’t. Only the unborn matter. And once they’re born they can starve.

At least one of their 100,000 women was a 14 year old girl raped by a friends father. They forced a child rape victim to carry a baby full term. Thats nothing to be proud of, its the sort of conditions you expect in countries with very questionable ethics..

I'm more interested in: how many women died? How many of those kids had to be put into care? How many were in poverty because of this? The mental and physical health of these women? Do they not matter!?

Freakonomics- that was it. Thanks. It was interesting.

I only listen to anti abortion people if they have had sex only for procreation, never for fun or whatever other reasons we do it. Still wouldn't pay them much attention, mind you.

freakonomics.com/2005/05/15/abortion-and-crime-who-should-you-believe/

There is a bit in freakonomics about crime rates falling in the US approx 15 years after abortion was legalised/more widely available.
Their theory is that there are fewer people with issues due to being unwanted children or from unstable backgrounds.
I thought it was interesting

It's such crap argument anyway.

I'm only 'alive' because my mum and dad decided to have sex whenever it was that they did to conceive me. If my mum had said 'not tonight love' and gone to sleep, I wouldn't be 'alive' either. If my dad had ejaculated a few seconds later and the sperm had happened to miss the egg, I wouldn't be 'alive' either.

Right I'm gonna stop talking about my dad ejaculating now!

Ugh. Fucking hell. Have they no shame boasting of this.

Even if this number was accurate, which given the anti choice movement’s record of lying out of their sanctimonious misogynistic arses, is highly doubtful..
it’s completely obvious that preventing abortion, banning contraception, or forcing sex, conception and birth ‘saves lives’, because more people will be born, but so what? That’s a state of affairs in society that we should aspire to, is it.

They are proud of themselves that thousands of NI women have been forced to have babies that they didn’t want or couldnt look after, or who have had extremely serious or fatal medical conditions..

All children should be born into situations where they are wanted/the parents can cope with them. Because children are important

No woman should be forced to carry a pregnancy for any reason at all. Because women are important.

I see pope francis has waded into this as well this morning, comparing antenatal testing with throwing babies off mountains.

I was also infuriated by the DUP guy on Any Questions and a couple of men who phoned in to any answers to rant about the evils of abortion, and I wondered about those figures too.
If those numbers are right (and who knows, really) then it really is a tragedy not just for those women that were forced to continue an unwanted pregnancy but also for those children who were brought up unwanted. Whilst I'm sure many women love the children they might not have had, there must be many who are not able to. When anti-choicers say both lives mater they conveniently forget not just the woman but also the child who may suffer the effects of being the results of a crisis pregnancy for the rest of their life.
I have had three much wanted children, including one with a disability. It is bloody hard work and I cannot imagine how much harder it would be if I had a child I didn't want.

100k women on official record as being forced to give birth against their will.

I wonder what label future generations will give this age? Will we still be part of the dark ages in their eyes?

@Bowlofbabelfish

Well seeing as they haven't moved on from 1690 I'd say you're right

The numbers mentioned and maths behind them are irrelevant to me. It's not that the people born are any different from anyone else, it's that basic principle that half the population can't choose what happens to their bodies. One woman who has choice removed is too much.

I'd be rather more impressed by the anti abortion mob if they remained celibate unless trying to conceive.

There was a book a few years ago by 2 men who worked in a sub specialty of economics. They concluded that there had been a big drop in crime rates in New York some years after abortion had been legalised there. The theory seemed to be that many of those unwanted children who would have gone on to commit crimes simply had never been born. Not a popular conclusion in some quarters, as you can imagine.