Poor kid

I'm my opinion the only thing that differentiates boys from girls are their primary and secondary sexual characteristics. Girls can do anything boys can do, and boys can do anything girls can do, barring those things that are required to procreate.

The only thing holding people back are societal expectations. We need to be challenging these, not reinforcing them with this gender identity nonsense.

Trans theory is regressive.

The only difference between boys and girls cycles were girls didn't have that pointless bar.

That's for structural reinforcement.

And the biggie, for many girls, the looming puberty ("what do you mean I am going to start bleeding down there?").

In my case, the bleeding started before anyone warned me about it. I'd have rather had looming puberty than the Carrie-like panicked belief that I was dying.

That is not true. You can look around any street in any city and see plenty of girls and women on bikes wearing skirts.

I always end up with mine wrapped in the chain and ruined, or else blown up around my head.

Kitties

That's a pedicure situation I'd be keen to avoid!!

ResistanceIsNecessary

I like being able to wield a chainsaw but at the same time I like putting sparkly polish on my toenails.
...can I recommend you DON'T do those things at the same time?

I always think I’ve been born in the wrong body when I watch footage of screaming girls at pop concerts. I always watched very perplexed because I could not identify with the hysteria (even when I was 14 and hormonal) I went to loads of gigs as a young teenager and could cheer with the best of them - but screaming and crying? Nah! Still feel the same disassociation when conversations about handbags, make-up and shoes ensue. Oh and all those ‘how useless is my partner’ conversations too. Hate all this gendered shite. Really, really hate it.

The more I read about what constitutes a trans person the more I believe I am trans

I don't wear make up, skirts or dresses. I never brush my hair. I don't own a handbag. I work in a very male dominated profession and get more excited at buying a new hammer than looking at handbags.

I am obviously in the wrong body

I do think there's a lot of hyperbole about this child on this thread h. The child's mother obviously wants her 5 mins of fame, and to be so cooler brains fall out. But really all the article says is that the child has an appointment, and hormones and puberty blockers may be prescribed in the future. And as the NHS best practice for children is "watchful waiting" hopefully it will never come to that.
Maybe some time away from peer influence at school, will help. Maybe the child will feel able to open up more to the mother about h** stresses and worries.
Poor child.

six I agree it’s really hard for children who are struggling with dysmorphia of any kind and who have mental health difficulties. I just don’t agree that anyone should be telling their children they are able to change sex. Yes, it may be distressing to hear, especially if they have been fed a lie by YouTube videos, Internet forums, etc but I just don’t see how telling them they can achieve the impossible will help. Isn’t it just setting them up to fail?
It seems better saying they can live happily as a trans-man or a trans-woman when they are older as many people choose to do but that they will never be able to change sex.
Plus looking at other potential issues such as ASD (as I think you mentioned earlier) which often seems to be ignored.

It’s just awful for these children who are being given hormones and puberty blockers when almost all of them will come out of the phase. It’s actually quite frightening that it’s allowed to happen.

I spent my whole childhood wanting to be a boy. I had three brothers, and all the neighbour children were boys. I had short hair, all my clothes were handed down or "borrowed" from them (my choice). I never wore a dress/skirt or played with dolls. I pretended I was a boy at every opportunity. I went to a residential week with one of my brothers once and begged my parents to tell the people running it I was a boy so could sleep in the boys' dorms.

I remember vividly the day my mum told me that as I was "developing" I had to wear a t-shirt playing soccer. One of the neighbour's parents had complained, apparently. I was 9 or 10, and I was devastated as it was the first time there had ever been a difference made between me and the boys (apart from my abject failure at peeing high up on tree trunks . I hated my first period and everything else that related to me being a girl.

I was and still am good at traditionally male things - maths, mechanics, ikea furniture, map reading.

My parents waited it out, matter of factly, sympathised with me, never restricted or forced me to do or not do anything.

I'm a heterosexual woman and a mother. Which I suspect I might not have been had I been a child these days.

I think there are many girls/women like me.

It's called Kids on the Edge, the gender clinic. Was shown last year on channel 4.

Kardashianlove - yes, I agree that it would be just as bad, there are no right answers really. I am not in this position myself and have no idea how I would react. Watch the channel 4 documentary last year, i t describes some of the individual experiences and how it affects the children's day to day life and mental health. Can t remember what it was called, maybe Trans Kids.

SuperDandy: " But you don't see that as a hostile position to take."

I see it as being hostile to child abuse.

Lass it was me that said I was more interested in reading or being outside running about.

I was not - and am not - holding that up as evidence of being 'boyish'. But my experience of growing up was that most of my female friends didn't want to come and play because I wasn't interested in pretending to do tea parties, or putting make-up on a Girl's World. Hence use of the term "tomboy", because that is exactly how I was described by adults when I was a child.

Girls and boys can obviously both run, jump, climb, create, imagine, enjoy glitter, enjoy mud, like to be clean, like to get dirty, be interested in science, be interested in make-up and fashion...none of this should be "gendered" nor should it be mutually exclusive. I like being able to wield a chainsaw but at the same time I also like putting sparkly polish on my toenails. My post was intended to point out the cultural change that has been effected since I was a child, and that we seem to be moving away from accepting that all humans including our offspring, are multi-dimensional individuals. It was not intended to suggest that gender stereotypes should be maintained.

The mother in the article called her child a tom boy for not wanting their long hair styled or make up put on so it would appear that some parents bar is incredibly low for their definition of 'not a proper girl'.

For most people it depends on the norm in their social circle if all the girls are riding bikes/climbing trees etc then doing either wouldn't be gender non conforming, if they were only things that boys did then a girl wanting to do them might well get called out for them.

It seems likely that this child is growing up in a strong 'girls do x boys do y' environment, if that was coupled with Mermaids type stuff at school 'children who do x are boys / do y are girls' then it's hardly surprising they have bought into it. Likewise for the parent who probably thinks they are doing totally the right thing. I don't know how the gender clinic will respond, my understanding is that social transition makes subsequent medical transition much more likely.

@sixnearlyseven
I would imagine a parent saying ' its not possible to be a girl ' would be really distressing to a child in this position
I’m sure there is a trans poster who posts on these boards who says not being able to change sex was one of the best things her parents told her and that they would have found it extremely distressing to believe it was possible to change sex and yet find out as an adult that no matter what they did they could never actually become a woman. Although altering their appearance to appear how society sees women makes them happy.

Do you not think telling a male child they can be a girl and him believing it is really damaging? At what point do you tell him it’s possible to be a girl? When their hair has grown? Once they’ve put a dress and make up on? Once they’ve taken hormones? Had breast augmentation? Had a cavity put in to resenence a vagina? When are they actually a woman?

Lots of girls find the thought of puberty frightening and probably find it distressing to be told they will grow breasts and always have periods etc but we can’t lie to them because it’s distressing.

When I was growing up I had a female cousin who for YEARS (right through primary school into secondary) used to say she was a boy, had a ‘boys’ haircut, ‘boys’ clothes and underwear etc. She used to say she wished she was a boy and wanted a penis. Her parents just matter of factly told that’s not possible, you’re a girl, etc. Obviously comforted her when she was upset about it but made no issue of how she dressed, wanted her hair. She’s now married with DC and has no interest of wanting to be a man.

I remain wholly unconvinced that all or even a majority of adults were telling girls they were "tom boys" because they liked the things listed on here as proof of gender non conformity

Geez Lass, many posters have said that this was their experience. It is entirely irrelevant whether you are 'convinced' whether this is true or not. Get over yourself

I said nothing about the individual anecdotes were true. I was referring to a general , not on this thread or forum, world.

When the evidence of not conforming to gender stereotypes expected of a girl includes examples such as liking cycling, reading or being outdoors it strikes me as exaggeration. Really - these activities are not considered suitable for girls? By whom ? I'm making the assumption we are talking about the UK/Europe, not Afghanistan.

I don't pretend to know a lot about the issue, just my experience of a child I know. I would imagine a parent saying ' its not possible to be a girl ' would be really distressing to a child in this position , but personally agree with a lot of what has been said. Describing adults as promoting gay conversion therapy is going a bit far tbh. But yes I've heard lots of these kids turn out to be gay in the end. Also that autistic kids are more likely to present as ' trans'.

I remain wholly unconvinced that all or even a majority of adults were telling girls they were "tom boys" because they liked the things listed on here as proof of gender non conformity.

Geez Lass, many posters have said that this was their experience. It is entirely irrelevant whether you are 'convinced' whether this is true or not. Get over yourself

I am also a child of the 70s who was frequently told they were 'tomboyish' for wanting to wear trainers and overalls over pretty shoes and dresses. I preferred playing with Lego over Barbies, climbing trees and yes bike riding over playing with tea sets and ballet.

There is of course no reason that girls cannot enjoy bike riding or boys enjoy ballet... however, as many PP have stated was their experience, I remember being made to feel there was something wrong with it. My mother greatly desired me to do ballet to "improve my posture and develop a more ladylike way of walking" whereas bike riding made my hems muddy and my hair messy. Which irritated her, particularly when she feared my grandparent's disapproval over letting me 'run wild' like a boy [tomboy]

• a billion

But a child would just say " I'm not living as a girl I am a girl" etc
Isn’t it up to the parents to explain that the child can dress how they want, have their hair however they want, do whatever actives they want, etc but it’s not possible to be a girl.
If they decide when they are grown up that they want to take hormones, have surgery, etc then they can consider this themselves as at adult but it won’t ever be possible for them to change sex.

it's a very deep rooted issue for most kids who are trans. It isn’t though is it, as most kids who say they are trans (80%) decide they are not trans after all.

And I don't think being gay comes into it for most kids and parents, this isn't usu ally about sexuality Again, a large proportion of kids who say they are trans turn out to be gay.

The whole notion of trans prior to puberty is ridiculous, utter nonsense

I just don’t believe in it at all

I think children are genuinely distressed, but it’s because Society polices gender roles so fiercely... I cannot believe that anyone would give credence to an explanation that says a child’s body is “wrong”

I guess I just don’t believe in trans

Interesting to see if that is deleted

So hackmum, you seem to be saying that in your view, a parent being open to a referral that may, in time, lead to legally prescribed treatment for their child, is "child abuse, pure and simple." But you don't see that as a hostile position to take.

But a child would just say " I'm not living as a girl I am a girl" etc, it's a very deep rooted issue for most kids who are trans.

I don't think there's any such thing as a trans child, just as I don't think there's any such thing as a religious child - just a child of religious parents. (And I say this as a parent with an active religion.)

And I don't think being gay comes into it for most kids and parents, this isn't usu ally about sexuality.

Except that the available evidence says that most gender-nonconforming kids do turn out to be some variety of gay, not trans. Which is why many of us think that adults promoting the concept of trans children are promoting gay conversion therapy.

It would be interesting to know whether the clinic will actually prescribe puberty blockers in this case. The wording in the article is unclear; the child may actually just be on a list for a first appointment, given the reference to "4 weeks ago", and the idea of puberty blockers just something that the child/mother thinks will/should happen.

I agree Betty that's exactly how I would put it. But a child would just say " I'm not living as a girl I am a girl" etc, it's a very deep rooted issue for most kids who are trans.
And I don't think being gay comes into it for most kids and parents, this isn't usu ally about sexuality.