Why I can no longer use the term transwoman...

@bd67th. I understand the analogy, and appreciate that you did not express yourself in the way supermatch keeps doing over several threads.

I would have no issue with describing the issuing of another birth certificate as a legal fiction; it is one, and it's a good analogy for the new birth certificates for transexuals upon transition. My problem is with calling adoption itself a legal fiction- it isn't.

Furthermore nothing about the adoption act seeks to redefine language- the definition of parent remains as it always was. It's a bad analogy to the GRA and leads to the implication that adoptive parents are not real parents.

While acknowledging people can do what they like, I'd love it if everyone just ignored Supermatch's constant harping on this.

*Kettlepotblackagain

Parenting is not something you 'feel'. You do it. You don't identify with it. You are parents if you parent children!!!*

I think this is an important distinction. They are assuming the role of parenting, taking on all the legal responsibilities. Not just rights, but actionable responsibilities that are objective of feelings.

The trans activist equivalent might be more like a childless person who likes kids and spends a lot of time with them - maybe a teacher or childcare worker - demanding to be legally and socially recognised as 'a parent.' They love kids, mentor some, feel very maternal/paternal, do some parenting-role aspects - even actual parents call them things like 'honourary aunt', sometimes the kids slip and say 'mum' when talking to them. Should they be legally entitled to paid parental leave? Family tax/government benefits? Always use facilities in parents rooms? Should they show up at mother's groups and dominate the conversations? Should they say that mothers day should center them, that they are more of a parent than many who just pop out kids?

Sure, people might just go along with it for a little bit, especially if they were otherwise nice and/or pitiable.
But when parent's groups are full of childless 20 somethings parentsplaining to mothers and fathers, when they demand that parents start calling themselves 'stock parents' because they are parents too, when they start teaching 5 year olds that their true parents are whoever feels parenty and those stock-parents are just parents by an accident of biology, people will get sick of it and push back!

loveyouradvice
It is a carelessly crafted law.
www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/section/7

GardenGeek Yeah, I feel ok about using "transmasc" and "transfeminine". I also first heard the terms from trans people themselves, notably a few trans people who are prominent activists on YouTube- Chase Ross, Ty Turner, Aaron Ansuini. Chase has explained a few times using "transmasc" for trans who ID on the "masc" scale anything from "trans man", "trans guy" to "Boi" to [bio female] masculine-identifying non-binaries and genderqu**r.

*All three also identify as "trans man", "trans guy", "FTM" (and, with a bit of YouTube humour, "#FemaleToDemonetised").

Having said that, there was one comment on the Part II thread that said it was ok. (sorry, cannot figure out how to get a hyperlink to the comment, only using the 'report' URL)
www.mumsnet.com/ReportTalkPost?topicid=1374&threadid=3277316&msgid=78647084

Just jumping in for a 're-rail' here (LOL).
I am positive I have seen a MNHQ mod (possibly Justine or Kate) state in one particular place that 'transwoman' was not acceptable, and the space from hell should henceforth be added.

I have had a search on the two mod threads in site stuff, cannot find it. But I remember reading it, and was suitably horrified. Will have another go at searching.

I did chuckle at PERF's transwo space man

If forced to use the space, I will use 'transwoman'. And no doubt lose a 'life' in the process.

Me: A woman adopting a child becomes the mother by legal fiction, but the law cannot force the child's nor mother's chromosomes to change in order to create biological kinship.

@donquixotedelamancha Nope. A woman or man adopting becomes a parent because they are the one cleaning up vomit and wiping away tears. Same as any other parent.

Foster parents perform those care activities but they are not legally parents, they are guardians, and don't have the same rights and responsibilities with respect to the child. Adoption takes the rights and responsibilities that the biological parents had over the child and transfers them to the adoptive parents, even though the adoptive parents are not biological kin to the child, so any inheritable diseases that the adoptive parents have will not affect the child. It's this ability of the law to transfer rights but not affect biology that is the analogy to transwomen. I'm talking about the law and biology, not the practicalities of care nor about whether adoptive parents are valid or suitable parents. (That the legal system allows for adoption would indicate that adoptive parents are valid and suitable parents, otherwise adoption wouldn't be allowed. The people I know who have adopted, I have the utmost respect for because they are giving children, who have frequently had a bad start, a second chance at a good home. There is absolutely nothing second-class about adoptive parents.)

I was always unsure of the reason for the addition of "trans" as a prefix.

If a person identifies as a woman, my instinct is to call them a "woman".

Food of the gods, but you spelled potatoes wrong. The correct spelling is SPUD 🥔 😁
That was my grandma McAllister's nick name when she was young. Spud. It always makes me think of her.

A woman adopting a child becomes the mother by legal fiction

Nope. A woman or man adopting becomes a parent because they are the one cleaning up vomit and wiping away tears. Same as any other parent.

People who fuck off and don't parent are not parents, no matter how many genes they share. People who lose their kids because they abused them are not parents.

This situation is not analogous with the GRA, please stop referring to is as such.

Parenting is not something you 'feel'. You do it. You don't identify with it. You are parents if you parent children!!!

@SupermatchGame

'Mother' used to mean biological female parent until the definition was changed by the Adoption Act. You don't have to be a biological mother to legally be a mother.

FFS is it 'offensive dickheads commenting about adoption' day on MN today? It has always been entirely normal to describe the people who care for you and bring you up as your parents. Adoption occured before the adoption act and adoptive parents are not lesser parents.

It is really offensive to keep using adoption to make your point. Adoptive parents are real parents and you are disgusting to keep suggesting otherwise.

They were yummy PERF. Potatoes always cheer me up

Food of the gods, but you spelled potatoes wrong. The correct spelling is SPUD 🥔 😁

I haven't been ok with the word transwoman for a while now. I'm not prepared to concede that they are any type of woman. They are men. That's it. I'm not going to be nice. My answer is NO

Same here. I've NEVER been ok with it tho.

They were yummy PERF. Potatoes always cheer me up

yy Elen, I noticed that one too.

I hope you’re enjoying your potatoes 🥔 Maryz. You did say it was a potato, didn’t you?

@Supermatchgame Someone once tried to legislate the value of pi but the human law could not change the laws of mathematics. A woman adopting a child becomes the mother by legal fiction, but the law cannot force the child's nor mother's chromosomes to change in order to create biological kinship. The GRA can create a legal fiction of sex change but cannot alter biology.

Bringing up bank robbery is not at all relevant.

I'm not sure why you would want to equate transgenderism with lies

Nearly fell off my chair laughing at this one.

Champ? Are you fucking kidding me? That has cabbage in it [horrified]

Does your constant goading belong here, SmG?
I guess the question for MN is more about whether or not this is the right place for it.

I come here in the same way that I frequent the Daily Mail comments, the places where incels dwell on reddit, and places where trump supporters frequent. Not to goad, but to engage, and to hopefully allow any lurkers to see that there's other points of views on display in echo chambers.

not at all goady

Have a nice virtue signal.

The EA says the protected category of gender reassignment refers to transsexuals. Not men nor women nor "transwomen" or "transmen". Transsexuals.

Gaslighting doesn't mean 'disagrees with me' just fyi smg.

We know SMG has a bit of a suspect dictionary.