Spreading the idea that everyone has a gender identity

Do you think i am anywhere near Supermatch?

And it is related to your body. As a biological woman with a feminine gender identity you welcome periods as a rite of passage. You welcome puberty and want to make yourself attractive as a womanly woman. You welcome these things not as biological fact but as progress towards a picture you have of yourself and this includes being attractive to men. This will all be making some readers want to puke of course. Sorry about this. I can well imagine how someone who identifies with femininity and has a male body would feel horrendous about their move towards a male body which is associated with masculinity

I have had the experience of having a gender identity Supermatch so I can explain it to you - that indefinable thing. It is the belief that 'woman' is both part of who you are and who you choose to be. You recognise society's expectation of what a woman is and you know it to be who you are. You feel that what society wants of a woman is what you want of yourself - femininity. It feels familiar, safe, warm. You have actively nurtured your own femininity having seen it and valued it in other woman. You have copied your mother since you were tiny and known this is who you are meant to be deep down inside. You long for things you associate with femininity. Like teapots and intimate friendship.

Lots of posters here have never felt this way. But I have.

Do you think this might be the sort of thing you are describing? And the sort of thing that transwomen may also long for and feel?

To you - being a woman and feeling like you are a woman are exactly the same thing

How do you know? I don’t know what it feels like to be a male, and i didn’t grow up in a time where i was told i could change it. I don’t “feel like a woman” though, either.

I don’t like my adult female body, actually. My boobs get in the way, i don’t like the periods, hormone cycle, male attention for my femaleness. I dress and behave gender neutrally.

Having said that i don’t think i’d want a male body either. A penis is an utter pita as far as i can tell, and probably would get in the way more than boobs do. Plus the semen and the wet patches- doesn’t sound any better.

If i honestly had a choice I’d pick my pre pubescent body. I could choose whether to present male, female or other, no messy sex related crap, comfortable clothes, and proportionally strong and functional.

I know i can’t do that without significant pain and risk, if it is even possible as my skeleton and body have already changed, and i can’t get rid of the hormones. I could probably have a mastectomy, hysterectomy and laser hair removal, but i still wouldn’t be a prepubescent child, or even look much like one.

Sarah yes, thats what the words mean. Man and woman are adults males and females.

The names for the gender expression are feminine and masculine.

Sorry what I meant to say is that a person who doesn't adhere to gender stereotypes is describing their sex when they say they are a woman or a man

I find this fascinating. I was a very GNC child. I actually got chased out of the female toilets as a ten year old who looked very much like a boy (and was secretly rather pleased about that because I really wanted to be a boy. Boys could do fun stuff and were allowed to kiss girls).
As I have grown up I have had a series of very gendered expressions of myself - often vampily femme, and I'm also into historical costuming and enjoy Victoriana and 1950's style. I change my expression on a whim, and it's very like deciding 'who' I am going to 'put on' today.

I have never been under the slightest illusion that the physical threats I have been subject to, or the disadvantages I have faced, or the physical disability I received through child bearing have had anything to do with being feminine or masculine in presentation. Those things happened because of my sexed body, and as such, need to be acknowledged and treated differently than the scorn I have sometimes received because I've been dressed in a 1860's day dress while walking around Debenhams.

The difficulties experienced by those who struggle with how their gender expression is perceived by others should be approached with interested concern, but it in no way correlates to the perils of being a person in a female sexed body.

Utterly apples and orangutans.

Ahh! Supermatchgame you have given me a light bulb moment. Now I see why other posters object to the notion of gender identity. They define it as you do! Like that cor gender identity you describe that has nothing to do with sex or stereotypes or gender roles! Now that - that does not exist. The butch lesbian is definitely definitely not expressing an internal gender identity when she is a woman. I was perplexed when people were saying you can't define or observe gender identity because you can observe the expression of gender identity. It is all over the place. But if you remove stereotypes there is nothing left. If you cannot define a concept or describe an experience then it doesn't exist.

Lol @ works for me
Existential do-what never did no one no harm

Lol, what genitalia feel right for you ?
You don't try them on like shoes to see what 'feels right' ffs.

Plenty of women don't feel right about their genitalia and primary sex characteristics. In fact, making us feel dirty and ashamed about it is frikkin patriarchy 101.

SupermatchGame, you're describing something that presumably means a lot to you but doesn't to others. During numerous debates about gender identity here each time very few posters agree that they have one.

As transgender ideology relies on us all having a gender identity, it seems the ideology is in trouble.

The Emperor has no clothes and slowly but surely everyone is realising it.

Well fortunately for there are less and less true believers by the minute Ereshkigal.

SMG has what SMG needs, why the heck we have to be preached at constantly I don't know.

SMG talking to true believers about this is exactly like talking to religious people about how they have felt the divine.

SuperMatchGame I have been to the doctors and begged for a breast reduction.

I have spent thousands on push up bras, minimiser bras, hair dye, hair cuts, makeup, moisturiser, fake tan, sunbeds, stretch mark creams and oils, high heels, enough clothes for a small village, razors, waxing, epilators. Ive even starved myself at times, in an attempt to feel comfortable with my body.

While I cant speak for all, I dont think this is uncommon.

Just because women havent attempted to change sex, does not mean we are by any means happy woth our bodies or with the gender roles society enforces on us.

To you - being a woman and feeling like you are a woman are exactly the same thing.

I don't feel like anything.

I just am.

I think this whole issue could do with many more posts like Jamie's!

I don't think there is any justification to be sneery about the kicking back on this stuff from Jamie. Millions of people are being fed this psych disorder stuff in a pink and blue gender concept.

It may well de-stigmatise a small number of people, but it is also leading to chaotic damage being caused to children, sex based protections chucked out of the window and fetish being sanitised as a sexual orientation we all have to participate in.

It's hard to believe these are unintended consequences frankly.

A little more existential pragmatism in the world would be a very good thing, I think!

I don't have an innate sense of gender.

I am a woman because I am an adult human female.

I have experienced male violence etc because of this. Not because of how I feel inside or what I think in my head.

I don't conform to gender stereotypes.

Last night, I went out with some male friends. They are very protective over me. They check I'm ok and keep an eye on me whethwr i meed it or not. That's not because of how I feel inside. That is how gender norms are imposed externally. I have no control over how they see me or the expectations they have of me or themselves around me.

But the fact that you are comfortable with those secondary sex characteristics and that they feel right for you, indicates that you have a gender identity that is not in conflict with your sex.

Because they are the same you can't experience them as different. To you - being a woman and feeling like you are a woman are exactly the same thing. It's therefore easy to think that you feel like a woman purely because you are one. Maybe you do. But you'll never know because you don't have gender dysphoria

I’m sorry but that reads as just so much bullshit! Please stop telling other posters what they feel and what they are comfortable with! The poster you quoted literally just said she doesn’t have a gender identity, you have no place telling her that she does. It is a belief system, an ideology, we respect that you believe in it, we’ll defend your right to do so, to define yourself thus and identify however you like, but quit forcing your beliefs on others. You do NOT know other people’s psychology better than they know their own because you read an old textbook and some links to biased summaries of most likely flawed research that you can’t quite remember.

Works for me

Common sense is now Existential Pragmatism

Well indeed. Because how are young people supposed to make sense of the world and develop as people when they are being told this gender identity stuff is some kind of psychological truth?

It's a good point re: wishing for something you can't have. Children, teens and adults need help to come to terms with their body, not encouragement to believe their body is wrong and should be altered in such a way they become sterile, with significant adverse drug reactions and cross sex hormone impacts.