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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Can human beings change sex?*

260 replies

Terfulike · 15/06/2018 20:49

Serious answers only please.
*With acknowledgement to Bowl, who has raised this so often. Apologies if this is repeating a thread from the past (?): in any case, maybe it's time for another thread with this title.

Please, no wordy arguments about how sex can be changed by legal instrument around the world, just answer the question posed.

OP posts:
ResistanceIsNecessary · 16/06/2018 14:15

Lovetheway Grin

Am I admirable for buying men's clothes instead of pink frou-frou stuff and stomping around with a chainsaw doing "manly" jobs?

lovetheway · 16/06/2018 14:12

But they absolutely can decide their gender. And those whose biological sex and gender do not align and have the courage to live their lives as they feel comfortable are admirable in my opinion.

Aw thank you! (Female woman Marvel fan with no children who loves wearing make up)

Or is that not what you mean?

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 16/06/2018 14:11

No

RubyShooFan · 16/06/2018 14:08

Late to the party but NO.

This should be categorically taught in biology to counteract the online grooming telling children that they can. Sad

spontaneousgiventime · 16/06/2018 14:04

No! Never! A biological impossibility.

vaginafetishist · 16/06/2018 14:03

No

Thingiebob · 16/06/2018 13:54

No

NauticalDisaster · 16/06/2018 13:53

No, of course not.

misscockerspaniel · 16/06/2018 13:51

No, of course not. Biologically impossible.

AssassinatedBeauty · 16/06/2018 13:49

What is a female gender, if it has no connection to your sexed body, @AynRandTheObjectivist?

To answer the original question:

No.

conservativeuterus · 16/06/2018 13:39

NO

AynRandTheObjectivist · 16/06/2018 13:34

Gender is a spectrum, and exists independently of sexed bodies. I don’t know what you are talking about!

You're right, I worded it badly. I guess what I meant was: no, a person can't change sex, but they can alter their body so that it more closely resembles the body that would be aligned to their gender.

In other words, no, a man cannot become a woman. He can, however, alter his body so that it more closely resembles a woman's body. It's not a woman's body and never will be - women are not castrated men - but it will look, on the outside, a bit more like one.

In the case of a trans woman, she already had the female gender if not the sex. Same goes - she cannot change her body into that of a woman, but she can alter it so that it looks, externally, a bit more like one. Might even be convincing enough to fool people.

SeaWitchly · 16/06/2018 13:24

No. Absolutely not.
And anyone who says they can or ‘Transwomen are real (biological) women’ is either delusional, lacking in basic understanding of biology or is indulgent/supportive of extremist trans ideology.
HTH.

DickTERFin · 16/06/2018 13:18

Nuh-uh.

starcrossedseahorse · 16/06/2018 13:14

Nope.

womanformallyknownaswoman · 16/06/2018 13:13

No

StoatofDisarray · 16/06/2018 13:10

No.

LadyLance · 16/06/2018 13:09

A GRC is a gender recognition certificate- it recognizes gender. Gender is a social construct so I guess if we as a society say you can change your gender, you can.

Your sex is a biological reality- in mammals, this is determined by your chromosomes- you are XX (female) or XY (male) or in rare cases you have a chromosomal disorder and are intersex.

XX females have a womb, a vagina and a vulva. Baring medical conditions they will grow secondary sexual characteristics such as breasts following puberty.

XY males have a penis and testes. Baring medical conditions they will show secondary sexual characteristics such as facial hair and increased muscle mass.

Excluding people with intersex conditions, someone with XY chromosomes cannot naturally have female secondary sexual characteristics and visa versa. They can imitate some of them with the help of medical intervention such as artificial hormones and surgery, but they cannot have a fully functioning reproductive system of the other sex and cannot change their chromosomes.

Thus, homo sapiens (and other mammals) cannot change sex.

Not all animals have their sex determined by chromosomes- in some it is determined by the environmental conditions of the egg. Some species of animal are hermaphrodite. Some really do change sex, but their sex is determined in a different way to ours. Animals may have sex linked behaviours, but they do not have gender, so while a small number of animals can change sex, animals cannot change gender.

JSmitty · 16/06/2018 12:54

Not Yet.

MsBeaujangles · 16/06/2018 12:37

No, but they can alter their bodies to resemble their gender more closely

Gender is a spectrum, and exists independently of sexed bodies. I don’t know what you are talking about!

Mogleflop · 16/06/2018 12:05

No.

It's socially polite to pretend they can, but difficult to stay polite when people become abusive (and I think purposefully taking up resources intended to foster equality or offer protection to women is abusive).

I wish to fuck we had got rid of gender stereotypes by now. How did they get so entrenched again.

BeyondSceptical · 16/06/2018 11:48

Yes

...

...

Jk!! Grin
No.

WhollyFather · 16/06/2018 11:42

No.

lurker33 · 16/06/2018 11:41

SarahAr, you said Going with the dictionary definition of transgenderism as A state or condition in which a person's identity does not conform unambiguously to conventional ideas of male or female gender then transgenderism is not an ideology.

I am a woman, a female, have XX chromosomes etc. However, I do not conform to conventional ideas of 'female gender'. I do not wear make up, dresses or skirts, I hate shopping, I am good at maths, I have 'engineer' in my job title etc. This does not make me transgender. Hence believing it does is an ideology.

This is why I , and possibly a good deal of other women find the whole transgender ideology so insulting, as it implies that I am not a woman because I don't dress or act like a woman.

Let men act and dress in any way they like (normal caveats apply) and be proud to be MEN. Ditto with women who don't 'conform to conventional ideas on women'. Let them act and dress in any way they like (normal caveats apply) and be proud to be WOMEN.

For those with gender dysphoria I understand that may be a bit more complicated than that, but perhaps if society, and in particular MEN were more accepting of people that didn't conform to gender stereotypes (e.g. feminine men) then perhaps less people would see their bodies as the problem.

To avoid confusion, when I say woman and man I'm referring to the sex determined at conception, not gender. Its a sad state of affairs when I have to be explicit about what I'm referring to when I say man and women.

EmpressOfSpartacus · 16/06/2018 11:39

On how all this affects working-class women, one of the women interviewed in this article is Lucy McDonagh, co-founder of the Deptford People Project.

www.feministcurrent.com/2018/03/23/leftist-women-uk-refuse-accept-labours-attempts-silence-critiques-gender-identity/

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