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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Taking it out on your body - exploring possible roots

191 replies

womanformallyknownaswoman · 14/06/2018 11:49

This post emerges from a conversation started on another thread about the possible links between various conditions involving hurting one’s body, that I have called collectively “taking it out on your body”.

I thought a useful backdrop to this discussion is this:

The essence of radical feminism is the highlighting of the subjugation and marginalisation of women, by frequently consigning them to roles defined by men. This can mirror enslavement. This socialisation of women starts very early - I would contend in utero. It can certainly start early in the family and is fostered at societal and cultural levels and now is very heavily fuelled by social media.

These remarks are taken from Sheila Jeffreys at the recent Inconvenient Women WNTT event:

It is on the basis of sex that women are oppressed and on that basis that women rights are founded. It is in international law that sex is the basis of the granting of women’s rights.
..

The idea of gender arises from the oppression of women and cannot exist without it. Gender comprises behaviour and appearance norms required of men and women. Femininity is one half of gender and is the enforced behaviour of the oppressed, that is women. It includes humiliating clothing norms such as high heels, decoration, body exposure, body covering as well as the restriction of body movement, for example not taking up much space and so on.

It is based on the notion that women’s brains are somehow different from those of men, in ways that make them suited to such behaviour, make them rightfully subordinate and suited for doing the housework

The sparking comment on the other thread was this one:

user1499173618 Thu 14-Jun-18 08:43:48
BowlofBabelFish - the common thread between anorexia, bulimia, self-harm, trichotillomania, nail biting, gender dysphori (and, perhaps,tattooing, piercing) etc is deep-seated failure of recognition and denial of emotions. Human emotions are very real things but the gaslighting by society at large of human need and emotion causes immense confusion that results in people turning on themselves when they are not equipped to deal with the onslaught from the world at large.

To which I responded:

Emotional and psychological abuse targeting women, at family and societal level and now pervasive on SM, denies, discounts and coerces women away from their rightful autonomy and freedom of thought and being. This abuse can be somaticised by many women into blaming themselves, as the only tolerable, psychological alternative at an early age. This can lead to various manifestations of self harm and/ or taking it out on one's body. That is not women's fault but the environment they were raised in, where abuse is normalised and they are scapegoated.

From that point it was decided to start a separate thread.

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Offred · 27/06/2018 12:41

I have gotten in touch with anger now (good) - the SW ‘can’t come’ to the CIN with 1 1/2 hours notice she had the Senco call me...

Right before that call the school we are booked to visit on Monday called because the LA had told them to cancel the visit. The worker from the school kept saying ‘it’s your right as a parent to visit a school’ so I think she was pretty outraged too. I have told her we will be coming as arranged and that she can tell the LA if they have something to say to me then they need to say it to me directly.

womanformallyknownaswoman · 27/06/2018 06:57

That sucks Offred & Quentin

I'm distressed at the number of women harmed by the new guidelines - whenever I see a large group of women harmed like that, it undoes me.

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QuentinSummers · 26/06/2018 21:29

Bad....therapy getting hardcore now. Having marriage issues as a result of stuff I had been in denial about too. Sad

Offred · 26/06/2018 14:00

Pretty exhausted... Next CIN tomorrow. The 2nd SEND officer has left the LA and no-one has been allocated to take over as far as I know, not that they have bothered to communicate to me this was going on, I have simply found out via other people, SW #4 has been off sick and non responsive to everyone since the week after the last CIN so I don’t expect anything agreed at that meeting has happened.... There has been no cover during her absence.

So basically despite good intentions (aren’t there always?) exactly the same process is being repeated.

I don’t really know whether anyone will turn up to chair - that has happened before!!

No response to complaint about all of this still, LGO won’t do anything until 6 months have passed because it is SC...

I basically didn’t sleep all weekend, someone will have spotted me on here throughout the night.

I am now in that phase of being too exhausted to sleep so last night I couldn’t drop off.

I’m wobbly because I’m tired.

I’m good though because I managed to get through a no children weekend prior to this meeting without offing myself...

This is how it is measured nowadays!!!

womanformallyknownaswoman · 26/06/2018 13:37

so how is everyone?

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QuentinSummers · 24/06/2018 21:50

If I go quiet it’s usually because things are bad.
Yy.

Offred · 24/06/2018 20:20

I slope off to be alone like a wounded animal when things are too hard... sure many can relate to that!

Offred · 24/06/2018 20:18

Ach bewilderness, that’s nice!

I’m alright though. I sometimes find hugs and flowers confusing TBH. When I’m talking it is because I am OK. If I go quiet it’s usually because things are bad.

Not caring about being believed I think I find better, I know it’s not for everyone, it’s a form of self care because it’s about me centring myself in my own experiences.

thebewilderness · 24/06/2018 20:09

I do not need to be believed, I don’t actually care if you don’t believe, I’m telling you what happened.

I would hug you if I could.

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womanformallyknownaswoman · 23/06/2018 16:17

Offred

FlowersFlowers

Be gentle with yourself and yes fuck the world!!

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Offred · 23/06/2018 15:44

I’m going to scream wanker at cars that nearly run me over once in a while without thinking I am a bad person. I’m going to stop beating myself up for the rare occasion I have an emotion that bursts out. I’m going to get stuff wrong and say mean stuff and not see all sides and be a bloody human without thinking it is evidence I don’t deserve the name ‘human’ because it’s proof that I am!

Offred · 23/06/2018 15:41

My mum tried to give me a compliment a few years ago, which she does when she is trying to ingratiate herself during the process of sucking me back in that happens every time I distance myself....

She said ‘Offred, one thing about you I have learned is that you are relentlessly fair’

Well, fuck that, that’s part of the problem. No human can be relentlessly fair without losing their own humanity. I’ve been trying to work on stopping that because I realised at that moment trying to always be fair was erasing me.

womanformallyknownaswoman · 23/06/2018 15:40

BeyondSceptical

Taking it out on your body - exploring possible roots
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Offred · 23/06/2018 15:37

I’m trying to find anger about the things that happened TBH. It is very deeply buried. Nobody wants to hear it, many people don’t believe it, but I’m not living for them. They don’t need to believe it for me to say it and I’m not going to place myself in a position where the story is only real because someone else ‘gets it’ anymore... I think that’s what created this rabbit hole of disconnection from myself in the first place. I do not need to be believed, I don’t actually care if you don’t believe, I’m telling you what happened.

Offred · 23/06/2018 15:33

My childhood taught me a hell of a lot about ‘identity’ TBH. How it’s importance is in it’s function an individual’s negotiation with society.

Identity boxes said my childhood was desirable. Identity boxes stopped people listening to me as a child when I talked about abuse at home and at school, because I was from a ‘good’ (professional) Home...

My childhood has given me lifelong difficulties. Poor parenting, abuse, learning relationships were abusive from watching my parents, poverty due to homelessness when they kicked me out as a teen...

I’ve had to separate myself from them entirely to gain any peace and that took 33 years, it’s an idea I had first when I was 7 and then was repeatedly lectured about as soon as I expressed it out loud.

womanformallyknownaswoman · 23/06/2018 15:31

I liked hannah’s thing about help to take care of her story. It’s how I feel.

Yes that's what I mean by people getting it - if I tell people who don't get it, it feels like I'm not taking care of my story or me. Because they invariably invalidate me and my story- so I don't talk about it now unless I know people can honour and hold it. .

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BeyondSceptical · 23/06/2018 15:27

"and we have survived as the Phoenix does. Rising from the ashes"

♥️

Offred · 23/06/2018 15:23

I’ve found actually that getting myself to a place where I can (and do) talk to people who ‘don’t get it’ and carry on talking to people about it even when they don’t get it and accepting the feelings that come with that is helpful TBH.

I have however been talking to people who ‘don’t get it’ all my life really. I’ve always been a person people ‘don’t get’ and had a life people ‘don’t get’ so it’s not really something I can avoid.

It is wearing though even though I no longer really care deeply whether people ‘get it’ when I speak or not.

I think I find it helpful because I’m making it real and if it is just in my head it starts to feel not real.

I liked hannah’s thing about help to take care of her story. It’s how I feel.

womanformallyknownaswoman · 23/06/2018 15:13

It's made me angry again reading this thread at all the shit women who've been abused go through that compounds the abuse.

YY - I have to take this thread slowly as I am able, as I too am beyond angry at the re-victimisation. It's shocking and confronting.

I too have found I can't talk to people who don't get it. And few do. I feel we are the canaries sounding the early warning. And we have so much wisdom - ours is a sacred journey of fire - and we have survived as the Phoenix does. Rising from the ashes. We have so much to offer by way of lived experience and what works and what doesn't - and yet are mostly consigned by services as the other - the problem. It's a lonely path and we are strong women to have walked it and come through the Valley of Death alive if not uninjured.

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SummerKelly · 23/06/2018 15:04

That would be good woman. Most of my friends see me as sorted and organised etc., which I am, but I still carry around the scars. It does make me feel apart a lot of the time because when I've tried to talk to people without this experience they just don't get it, and sometimes with people who have had that experience it feels to difficult to "go there" when your relationship is colleague or other school mum or other acquaintance as it's difficult to unearth without feeling emotional and vulnerable. It's made me angry again reading this thread at all the shit women who've been abused go through that compounds the abuse.

womanformallyknownaswoman · 23/06/2018 13:13

Thanks SummerKelly

I have mainly done it alone, no one really knows my full story. - same here. Different therapists and people know fragments. Stay in touch - I'm setting up an environment where women's stories can be heard and acknowledged - sometime soon

My body is hypervigilent around men. I had to be. That's why I can't be in any space where I'm vulnerable with one, my fight or flight reaction would be triggered. I cannot identify out of this, it's deeply imprinted in my neural pathways and much as I'd like support to not react so much there's nothing there.

Yes, the hypervigilance is not a lifestyle choice nor a whim nor something that be turned on and off - but a survival mechanism that needs to be honoured by female only environments. It can only be healed by being safe and that means no male bodies.

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womanformallyknownaswoman · 23/06/2018 13:07

Offred
I have two auto immune diseases. - that really sucks and is so unfair - what a burden to carry. I am so sorry you have to live with that

So much of the literature re recovery makes a point of needing to get to a place of safety in order to effectively recover, women do not have that place of safety. We have pockets of special places that we go to from our homes, from our lives which are lived with men, and we return to those homes when we leave. ‘Why are segregated spaces so important?!’ They cry.... switch on your bloody brain...

I really observe that women are punished over and over again by their needs being ignored and that punishing makes us iller and causes real harm. This is not just accidental nor a bad system- it's designed to keep women in their place - at the bottom of the heap with no help to help them get back on their feet.

And I fucking identify as tired too.

Me too - exhausted at trying to get back up. But where's the help and advocacy? - people talk about having time on their hands but where is it? Celebrity and food culture have a lot to answer for. Self care is everything.

do they just need people to stop fucking blowing people and places up with fucking bombs first?

Yep male violence, in different forms, is the root problem - but will the men embrace that - the silence is deafening.

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SummerKelly · 22/06/2018 17:55

Thanks from me too woman. It is only recently in my not far off 50 years that I have understood all this. I always thought "flashbacks" were visual things rather than feeling "unreasonably" freaked by something, I was made to feel I was weird and standoffish and a control freak for not wanting to do something that was apparently normal and easy for other people, or having to get drunk to bear it. You are absolutely right there are not many places we can go to heal. I have mainly done it alone, no one really knows my full story.

When I first got out of my abusive situation I couldn't bear to be near men at all. If one sat next to me on the bus I'd have to get up and move. My body is hypervigilent around men. I had to be. That's why I can't be in any space where I'm vulnerable with one, my fight or flight reaction would be triggered. I cannot identify out of this, it's deeply imprinted in my neural pathways and much as I'd like support to not react so much there's nothing there.

Offred · 22/06/2018 17:49

Do people living in war zones need therapy and medication to learn how to think differently about their homes, families and friends being blown up or do they just need people to stop fucking blowing people and places up with fucking bombs first?