New guidelines - we aren't allowed to refer to natal sex

"Trans-identified' seems pretty goady - people generally don't identify as trans but as the opposite sex"

@MNHQ This is an egregiously false statement and writing moderation policy based on this falsehood severely undermines every other justification for restricting the ability of women to discuss women's rights on FWR.

Out of interest, can we refer to extant biology e.g. someone with a penis who is calling themselves a woman? Is it ok to say they still have a penis? What about saying they have XY chromosomes?

Because that's not referring to natal sex (whatever the fuck that is, humans can change gender but not sex, we're not fucking clownfish) that's referring to current biology, and I would say that women need to be able to share this information to keep themselves safe.

Besides which since sex is a protected characteristic, you SHOULD be able to refer to natal sex because natal sex is just sex.

Gender being a completely different fucking thing.

Or have MUMSnet missed half the bloody debates on FWR even though they have spent that long moderating the damn thing.

Sorry not MN.

MUMSNET.

Say it in full as much as you can, whilst you still can.

I have a younger brother.

How can you tell me, I do not have a younger brother?

My own identity is formed around me having a younger brother.

If I am unable to say I have a younger brother and grew up with the experience of having a younger brother, then you deny me my identity.

You break reality.

This is what screwed up my head. Being told that all my memories are not real. This is why I no longer am in contact with my parents because it fucked with my head so badly and damaged me psychologically.

But yes, we can no longer refer to natal sex because its irrelevant and not important.

I WISH THAT WERE FUCKING TRUE. REALLY I DO.
BUT UNFORTUNATLEY IT IS.

Sorry.

Slow handclap to MN for abusing women.

leyat Forgive me, it's late and maybe I missed the link, but what did the Wings Over Scotland poll discover?

Meanwhile, WRT MN rools, I'm sticking to respectful language, like 'ladies', which I would never use for cunty types.

If the don't represent you, how come you never speak up against it? How come you're here, on mumsnet, when you could be taking out side against those gross extremists?

It's because they are cover. They are getting laws changed, bullying the media and politicians, and transadvocates piggyback that extremism, into their campaign to remove women's spaces.

"So if we say transperson (presumably fine) is it ok to say transperson with XX chromosomes, or transperson with XY chromosomes. Y'know, so that it's clear and all."

Unless you are certain that someone is the biological parent of a child, how do you know whether they are XX, XY or something else? You can guess but that's not the same as knowing.

Because I bet that's what they do to us.

They probably don't. The new rules state that unwarranted (vexatious) repeat reporting will result in suspension.

Oh and for the record I find people with penises trying to use women's spaces distressing but whatevs. And a certain type of poster (everyone on this thread knows the type).

Personally, I suggest that we all report posts from those posters- you know, the disingenuous TRAs. Report every single one of their posts- make this more of a hassle for mumsnet than it's worth. Because I bet that's what they do to us.

And I find their posts distressing.

So what makes an identity other than 'I believe this about myself'? Upon what absolute truth does it hang? Beyond belief?

The integrity of the person saying it.

I've seen plenty of women's issues trivialised by trans rights activists. Is that OK?

No it's not. As many of us keep saying here, those extreme activists do not represent the majority in anyway.

Can we just refer to everyone by their chromosomes? After all- it's biological fact, isn't it?

So if we say transperson (presumably fine) is it ok to say transperson with XX chromosomes, or transperson with XY chromosomes. Y'know, so that it's clear and all.

I'm so upset that mumsnet are capitulating.

"LGBT overall in the USA have lost support in the USA. Or should I say the T lost them that support because of the bathroom bills."

I think it is more that Trump and Pence are no friends of LGBTI people. Transgender people in the military, for instance, have been totally silenced and others aren't feeling particularly safe whereas anti-LGBT groups have been emboldened.

Someone said every time transactivists accuse women of something, it's because they do it themselves. And here we are.

Or on abortion, when it's described as cis privilege. How's about that for trivialising.

Yy Roar like the trans advocates who say we have to stop talking about FGM because it's 'cissexist'.

How's about that for trivialising the reality of having your clitoris sliced off with a rusty razor blade and your vagina stitched up.

So what makes an identity other than 'I believe this about myself'? Upon what absolute truth does it hang? Beyond belief?

I've seen plenty of women's issues trivialised by trans rights activists. Is that OK?

How about not trivialising women, how about not reducing the class of women to a though experiment instead of a scientific fact?

Fucking delete me, see if that changes any of the facts. It won't.

I think we should do a poll to see how many people were live and let live, wear what you like, gender is fiction, who cares

UNTIL

a teeny tiny group of disturbed power hungry men from a very small minority of society decided that women were getting above themselves again and need squashing. Then a bigger group of political and business men who were also concerned that uppity women were costing them money saw a great women squashing bandwagon and jumped on it.

The best bit about all of this woman squashing is it has the added bonus of diverting the public's attention away from brexit, refugees, trump deals, the annihilation of the vulnerable, public service extinction in the guise of being a worthy woke cause.

This is the best bit of propaganda since facebook.

You are trivialising womanhood saying it is possible to experience it without female biology. It's distressing and upsetting for women here, and policing our language, when you don't even need to be here to read it, is just bullying.

Agree threads like. This just end up. With peoole. Pushing and pushing and. Then wondering why they are deleted

Can I ask, as a natal female - if everyone thinks I'm a man, does that make me one? Of course it doesn't. So why is it suddenly true if I tell everyone that I think/believe/know I'm a man?

What makes the difference?

The difference is that you are trivialising transgender identities. You are reducing it to a thought experiment in which you attempt to show the invalidity of transgender identity.

This has nothing to do with trans people.

There is so much wrong with this whole thread. People are going further and further with their offensive comments. Emboldened by each other. It’s utterly shameful.

My suggested collective term is 'men who say they are women' - this can also include those who also may not actually identify as trans but are male predators who want to take advantage of policies such as self ID in order to access women's spaces and places.

Can we just say wannabees?