trans women showing solidarity with women

The vast majority of trans people are AGP males, daimbars.

Um, don't think so. Given that there isn't even a "vast" majority of males in the trans population, this is clearly false. I would even say the vast majority of transwomen aren't AGP fetishists.

As daim says, this particular statement and ones like it have nothing to do with class analysis and everything to do with creating a false impression of the trans population.

Daims, of course it's true! I'm sure you know some very nice trans people like I know some very nice men...doesn't mean I don't think men as a GROUP are pretty abusive to women!

It breaks my heart that posters on this forum want people like my friend to be feared, ridiculed and shunned.

This is also just not true and is completely unjust Daim. You know it isn't.

The fearing, ridiculing and shunning that takes place is overwhelmingly against feminists for daring to want to talk about proposed changes which will affect women and girls, and for pointing out that the majority of the public are unaware of the implications of these proposals.

The vast majority of trans people are AGP males, daimbars.

It's just not true. In fact it's a downright lie. It's one of the sweeping statements so often made on here which is completely unjust.

Speaking I've read plenty of threads where regular gender critical posters on this board have stated that they are happy to use preferred pronouns for individuals, as a courtesy. Not everyone here agrees on this subject. My own view is that I would use preferred pronouns where appropriate, but my objection is to this being enforced by threats and penalties, as it is now in practice in some institutions, and even legally in some places (not the UK).

The figures for this do not now support that again sweeping generalisation and does not account for trans men or non. Binary people who appear to be one of the largest percentages

And people like me and the OP have RL experiences that conflict the opinion on here.

How do you know we haven't, Daim? How do you know how many trans people I know? How do you know what experience I have with current and historical trans culture?

The answer is: you don't.

The takeaway from that for me is: you simply cannot conceive of a pro-woman position and outlook. It's beyond you. Sadly.

No it really isn’t.

If you think that it is then the discussions are going over your head and your perspective is one of assumption based on your own prejudice.

talking about a class is not the same as talking to or about an individual.

If a group of individuals make up a class then sweeping statements can be taken to refer to that individual.

It's like lumping all Christians in with Christian fundamentalists, all Muslims in with Isis.

As Bespin points out when people don't know any trans people they are happy to assume a lot. To believe the actions of a handful of TRAs on Twitter are an accurate representation of trans people. And people like me and the OP have RL experiences that conflict the opinion on here.

It breaks my heart that posters on this forum want people like my friend to be feared, ridiculed and shunned.

Daim, none of us want that. To say this is flat out lying. Wishing to have female only spaces, and our rights as a sex respected means none of these things.

Many of us have friends who are trans, or non gender conforming, or gay. The constant cries of 'if only you would bother to talk to someone with X characteristic' are tedious.

They really are.

Women posting on feminist chat often use class analysis. This should be unsurprising.

It’s tiresome to have this place invaded by people who don’t understand this and make it all about individuals all the time.

This is the issue people on here like to talk about the theory of trans people mostly. Trans woman when many of them do not know any they are happy to assume a lot. About them. But when faced with the reality it is a lot. Harder to make these sweeping generalisations and lable everyone the same.

We don't want 'people like her' to be feared - we want to protect girls and women! Everything is about girls and women!!

And men do a fine job themselves of making themselves be feared. There is NOTHING women can do to make men more feared than they are already and they have done that all by themselves. Why aren't you talking on men's forums about this issue?

This is part of the problem. So many people can't see that talking about a class is not the same as talking to or about an individual.
Or deliberately confuse the issue, to suit their agenda.

Many of us have friends who are trans, or non gender conforming, or gay. The constant cries of 'if only you would bother to talk to someone with X characteristic' are tedious.

As for Daims claims that posters here want people to be harmed or ridiculed, its just SSDD. Tackle the people that you see post those sorts of comments, report them to MN for deletion, and stop tarring everyone with the same brush. You are blind to your own hypocrisy.

I find the sweeping statements about trans women difficult when they clash with positive things I've seen/experienced.

Yes OP, me too. I think when you have RL trans friends the sweeping statements about trans women are particularly difficult to read.

I also had a good trans friend at school, never thought of her as anything other than a girl. She was very much pro woman but of course there was no question of her not being one of the girls. It breaks my heart that posters on this forum want people like my friend to be feared, ridiculed and shunned. That's why I always speak up on here even though my opinions are unpopular.

I've said all along that a. the overreaches of certain trans activists, particularly in relation to transitioning children, will eventually result in a public backlash and b. when that happens it will be people like your friend who will bear the brunt of it, the activists currently being shouty and unreasonable about trans issues will simply move on to a different issue.

I wish that @MNHQ would push back against the transgender advocates trying to take over the Feminist forum with all these trans centered threads.
Either give them a place to talk about themselves or delete them.

I think it needs to be highlighted that Miranda Yardley has been absolutely hounded by the extremes of the trans rights activists for speaking up for women. Miranda is an apostate and a hero - and in return only gets vitriol from people who should be classified as allies! There's a lot of other trans individuals - especially those who used to be called transsexuals and believe you need dysphoria to count as trans - also being harassed and called tr*scum if they don't toe the line with the latest developments in trans thinking (which I think is really derogatory).

It really is an ideological issue. It's the demand for total acceptance of a set of ideas, and policing those who do not immediately submit.

It's a bit like comparing it to criticizing hardcore religious fundamentalist Christian doctrine. Nobody is saying that every Christian is bad or even believes the same things. But we have to be able to talk about the broader issues with that religion, to question these ideas robustly. The problem is that anyone who speaks up gets threatened with being burned at the stake for heresy, so tensions can run very high.

Plenty of trans people don't buy into the gender identity ideology behind the extremist activism. Plenty of them aren't homophobic or misogynistic either. Unfortunately for them, the extremists are doing their best to trash every bit of social acceptance they've gained.

I don't particularly want to throw old school transsexuals under the bus but if they want to help women, it's up to them to speak up.

My concern is women and girls (also boy children). I'll be sticking with centring them.

Part of the thing is the inequality of TRA ideology having twitter and the ear of govt, the third sector and political parties. This space is one specialist section dedicated to feminism on one website and it’s very hard to accept limits on free speech as a result.