How will we know if we have lost good women?

I’ve reread my post and realise how much it sounds like I’m thanking you all for supporting me out of an abusive relationship. Honestly that’s how it feels sometimes.

It’s scary when you try and explain how something is damaging you and you realise the person you are speaking with, who you are asking for some understanding just quite simply does not give a fuck about you

Biology is not bigotry.

Spot on.

btw there's a women-only private subreddit that's been established by GC feminists from the gendercritical public subreddit. I'm using it to supplement, not replace here. I need women-only spaces in my life.

People are right about the word spreading. This is a leading article in the Times today:
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/assaults-on-free-speech-are-led-by-the-left-l2r8t9t9p?shareToken=ac46a62e9b536fec827a7f829b866706

He absolutely nails what is happening to feminists.

MNHQ are in a difficult position and must be under extreme external pressure. As Datun says, we just work around the language issues with our customary ingenuity, humour and determination.

Bespin
If you are that easily silence the internet might not be the place for you.

I’m a lurker and I’m delurking to say thank you to all the women who have saved me from despair by saying “you’re not crazy, this is actually happening.”

By saying “ words have meaning, there is a difference between truth and lies and we recognise gaslighting and emotional abuse for what they are.”

Because sometimes I have felt like I must be going crazy - surrounded by blank-eyed robots who just keep repeating lies as if they were truth and selling women out for an ideology that they don’t even try to explain or justify.

I hope no one is banned and I will be sorry if anyone decides to leave because I feel like the women on this board are so important

I'm here.

Biology is not bigotry.

You can always tell on here when you are being policed by people who do not like. What you say as they will be critical of your gammer or spelling as if that undermines your points. This is a soft type of bullying and usually means that they have nothing to say against your points but still wish to attack you for saying it. It as the effect of silancing people who's first language is not English and people like myslef who are dyslexic from participating in any form of debate.

I lurk mostly. I don't have half the eloquence of posters like AAK, APAB, Datun and thebewilderness, I am aware enough of my limitations. I admire all of you immensely so if you decide to leave, I respect that but I hope you don't. You are definitely wanted and welcomed here by many, I know.

Women, know your place! FFS.

I hope HQ is happy with this entirely predictable development.

I've just seen a reply on Graham Linehans twitter saying "They haven't shut it down though. People can still go on MN and discuss being a mother."

It is only a matter of time before we have a list of approved topics to talk about. And it's not going to include women's rights.

Shit! What the fuck happened? I log off at about 6pm... I can see I have some catching up to do!

I think I am about to be bitterly disappointed!

The whole thing is ludicrous. MN have to realize these people will never stop trying to drive women from the feminist board. It will be something else soon that bothers them and MN will make yet ANOTHER statement trying to curtail women's freedom of speech.

I fully expect to be banned - I cannot in good conscience call a man a woman. It's laughable. Or it should be. Instead we have some people taking this crap as truth.

Just so you know I have often been told by mods these past few weeks that a post I reported does not violate talk guidelines in spite of the fact that when I said the exact same thing WORD FOR WORD my post was deleted for violating talk guidelines.

I think the poor English language has greater problems to worry about than a quote from bewilderness.

What will none of the words in it actually meaning anything and all

I feel that the comment bewilderness quotes above is uncivil to the poor English language, which has surely done nothing to deserve being abused in that manner.

By all means stay hold a debate but leave of you feel. You can not do that in a civil manner

We were being civil but unfortunately the goal posts have shifted once again and now we are cautioned not to state facts that are hurtful to males.
There isn't much leeway to talk about women's rights now that they have been declared to be anti-trans.

Regular FWR (and wider MN topics) poster here but have recently NC'd.

There's obviously a lot of (not unfounded) concerns about the new guidelines and what they will mean.

That said, I'm not flouncing because I think there is one very important "victory".

That's the proposal to ban members who repeatedly report posts that don't breach TG's.

I'm pretty certain there are a lot of activists with MN accounts who don't necessarily post but monitor FWR and report with zealous abandon.

Those that do post, often to provoke and "gain" those (often out of context) screen shots to boost their Twitter following whilst also mass reporting against alternative views on their threads, have their hands tied far more than us by these new guidelines. The more zealous the reporting the more likely they are to be banned.

Yes - there are concessions that will have to be made on the use of terminology and pronouns, but frankly I don't feel these issues cannot be overcome, through I do concede I'm going to have to think a lot more carefully about how I articulate some of my views.

Like many, I have days of utter frustration and despair but ironically today wasn't one of them.

FWR is still here. We are still talking and debating.

In RL people are becoming more aware of this issue and (in my personal experience) find it incomprehensible that the denial of biology, impact on sports, removal of single sex spaces and "selling" trans ideology to children has any traction and merit at all.

So I'm here, I'd like to stay and will do my level best to stay within TG's whilst not diluting my opinion.

AngryAttackKittens

I hear what you're saying. But I think we can still make all the same assertions and just work around it.

I also envisage that it might be quite effective for any journalists. The linguistic gymnastics would make fantastically outrageous copy.

I can actually see a lot of unintentional mileage being made.

I'm also quite looking forward to TRAs being forced to call us women. Often.

Private groups are no use.

The value in MN FWR is the polite discussion that causes lurkers to think.

Going off to a protected site is just speaking into a void. It's important that for every person who is banned someone else steps up and patiently, carefully (within the ever-decreasing bandwidth of allowed terms) explains the gender critical point of view.

I hope no-one goes. But if they are forced to I really hope that void is filled. And as long as it is, as long as every poster who is erased is replaced by another, we will continue to peak-trans educate the newbies, the people who wander here by mistake, the people to whom the trans agenda isn't a big deal - until of course the day they wake up and realise it's a massive deal.

I mean if we can't talk online we will all just lose the fear and talk in real life.

We just need to stay on air until the GRA consultation is in the bag. MN is doing a two-step around this but it could really be a couple days of threatening us with gulag while their fingers are crossed behind their back. Just buying a lil more time.

Regroup and keep fighting. We've had to do this a few times now. Its disheartening but i feel it makes us stronger and more determined.

We are women! We will not be silenced! We will not give up! We matter!

For the most part it won't be a matter of women leaving, Datun, anyone who doesn't couch every statement in 15 layers of "now I'm not trying to be unkind and I'm not using those words you told us not to" nonsense is going to end up banned within a week.

SuperLoudPoppingAction

APAB, AAK and The Bewilderness, please do not leave over this setback.

You must know how this board has influenced people. How women have used it as a springboard to set up other groups, both overt and covert.

Groups who are making headway. Getting press attention and the ears of journalists and radio broadcasters.

This very debacle is just about the most compelling evidence of mumsnetters' success.

It's bloody working.

This is long game. One that will likely go beyond the self id law.

As more and more people are actually affected by it, rather than the principle, the tide will turn.

I totally get it if you've had enough. You've been so brilliant. Hand holding, yelling, joking, stoking fires, soothing brows and informing.

Take time out of course, but keep a toe in the water.