How will we know if we have lost good women?

No I am not Bewilderness. But you know what you can do, so please report my posts , if you have not already done so.

And problem is that people say it was multiple posters ganging up on one poster.

Well there's multiple women here and transactivists know that when they cross our threshold. If they arrive alone, they can't come in the door and demand a one to one fisticuffs. They just use any old excuse to plead victimhood.

You know what everyone who contributes to this forum is valuable, every person who contributes to the debate and talks about it in real life. Every. single. woman. who contributes to FWR. All of them.

When my dd was about 8 she was accused of bullying by a classmate. I was called into the school and given a bollocking about it, as was she.

I was surprised, because dd was very quiet and shy. so much so that I was worried about her being bullied at the time. Having talked to some other mums, it turned out that a girl was following her around the playground at every break time shouting "stop bullying me, stop bullying me" - dd was terrified of this child, and just tried to escape, but didn't say anything back.

All this reminds me of that. Posters coming on here, pontificating, telling us all what to say and do, and when we try to walk away, or be humorous, start telling everyone we are bullies.

"Sheila Jeffreys just said at the WNTT event that MN is a commercial enterprise and is shutting down our language. She also said this shows the hetero patriarchy is strong."

It's not the hetero patriarchy shutting us down, it's a tiny handful of angry, self-entitled men.

If they apply these rules to the rest of the site it is really going to put a crimp in women's ability to talk about medical issues.

I'm happy for anyone to be pointed in the direction of the Trans Widows thread. We've so far not been targeted or criticised, if that is a possibility I'm fine with it being smoked out.

I have asked @MNHQ for clarification that the thread be allowed to stand, and to continue in the same vein, but I've no serious worry that it will be pulled. Mumsnet has a proud history of enabling women in difficult relationships to support each other and I can't see that changing.

Transactivists come here deliberately to goad and gaslight feminists, and when women respond with humour instead of anger it's called 'picking on'.

Oh yes. I have no comment on the potato thread, I wasn’t on that one I think or if I was I missed the incident. But the use of humour is vital. Time and again we see the pattern of a new poster coming in to put a rather dodgy viewpoint forward. They will argue endlessly but if you can just stay calm and have some gentle humour, I’ve found that it takes about seven post exchanges and they blow up. I’ve had some absolute vitriol directed at me in those situations. And I’m happy to let it sit there on the board. That person can’t hurt me. But leaving their words there is informative. They can goad me all they like - my superpowers are Science and Zen Calm.
Of course I respect people’s right to have abuse directed at them removed as well. That’s also a valid ask.

But humour is important. When it crosses the line to mobbing or personal attack is when the mods should step in. The cake threads have produced some very enlightening responses that show Male rage in all its glory. And some good recipes...

You are telling porkie pies, Lass.

It's true Lass and you know it. No one is allowed to laugh at the One True Faith

The deletions on the thread which started this potato stuff were not laughing at a concept. They were personal attacks on a poster.

I didn't post about potatoes. I'm not very funny. I like people who are.

The actual saying is that on the internet no on knows if you are a dog but I think calling a woman a dog is rude so I use potato instead to say that we have no way of knowing who anyone really is

The poster on the thread which started this had a long MN history. Nothing suggested she was not a woman- many of her posts referred to issues re children and childbirth. I can't remember exactly who called her a man. Your potato posts backed up that calling out and they and the original call out were deleted.

It's true Lass and you know it. No one is allowed to laugh at the One True Faith.

Transactivists come here deliberately to goad and gaslight feminists, and when women respond with humour instead of anger it's called 'picking on'

I can't now even remember what the subject matter of the thread was which induced the "hilarious" vegetable based insults. I don't however recognise your description of it.

My recollection was a poster who expressed a different view point was picked on. The responses descended into attacking her by one poster telling her she was a man which was backed up by the potato posts. Those posts were deleted. I don't recall much humour in it.

I thought it was bullying and the response to the deletions was the classic bullies' response of "what have I done wrong?"

The actual saying is that on the internet no on knows if you are a dog but I think calling a woman a dog is rude so I use potato instead to say that we have no way of knowing who anyone really is.

The potato thing isn't funny.

I genuinely didn't know how it started, Lass.

I still think the general self-policing-by-deflection thing is a) funny and b) better than a slanging match.

We are all very worried about what this will mean for the transwidows.

Yes. @MNHQ - can we have clarification on this? Will the transwidows be left alone to have their conversations without interference?

Picking on

Transactivists come here deliberately to goad and gaslight feminists, and when women respond with humour instead of anger it's called 'picking on'.

Surely this doesn't we'll have to call our ex's "she" on the Trans Windows thread? Because that's some familiar gaslighting that I've been through before.

That same issue applies to many women who have been victims of male violence - rape, DV, Family violence, sexual assault, coercive control and so on. It's the gaslighting that does the real long-term damage mostly, assuming the woman escapes with her life.

They know not what they do but they should being a women's forum - @MNHQ sounds like you didn't get DV training?

I've seen several people on the site stuff threads directing people over to the transwidows thread in response to claims that AGP doesn't exist (or in one hilarious case that maybe it does but not in the UK). Tinsel, would you prefer if people didn't do that? That thread definitely illustrates the fact that AGP is a thing but at the same time I'm a bit worried about the women there being targeted for abuse by those who might not have noticed them quietly refusing to comply before.

Tinsel I thought of you all when I saw Justine's statement.

I don't know what this means for the TW but the prospect of you having to police your pronouns is awful.

Is it worth contacting MNHQ and asking them for comment/guidance?

TinselAngel. Have you asked for clarification?

I don't think you can beat the frozen pea.

TinselAngel

We are all very worried about what this will mean for the transwidows.
Clearly MNHQ have taken the side of the abusive males in this conflict.