How will we know if we have lost good women?

Verifying ID is the latest assault from TRA

They won't stop with the end of FWR, just like they didn't stop with the first set of trans rules or the second set of trans rules. They will snip away at everything. They'll try to effect a Cancer UK style change in all the front page wording for a start.

Yep. Nothing is ever enough for these people.

Snappity with all due respect this is a hige forum with thousands of active members daily.

For the security you want, you'd probably have to pay membership fees to finance that

Why not find a forum like that?

Really? What about vulnerable women? Those who need to keep identities hidden because of stalkers etc?

I am desperately ill because a guy started stalking me and harassing me about 3 years ago. Indeed, I have PTSD. I actually would feel safer knowing Mumsnet validated IDs.

There are people suggesting that trans groups aren't the best people to provide education in schools about trans people though. You can understand the concern, I hope?

Trans people are not best placed to advise schools on policy and procedure, people who have specific training, knowledge and expertise are.

It is great when trans people, dyslexic people, autistic people come in to schools and share their experiences and talk about what they personally have found useful and less useful. Schools might like to draw on this to inform what they are doing but they have to balance the needs and interests of different groups with other demands and commitments

One shouldn't seek to strike a balance between the truth and lies, fact and fiction, objective and subjective.

This.

• Bloody hell that comment has made me so angry. I appreciate that it might be well-intentioned, but it represents everything that is wrong right now.

Got a relationship problem? MN is here to help.

Got a relationship problem and your partner has told you they are trans? Off you fuck, we can't talk about that here.*

@ResistanceIsNecessary

It's been so refreshing to not have the attitude that you describe in FWR Mumsnet- it's been one of the only places Trans Widows have been able to turn for non judgemental support. Implications that it's ok to discuss all other relationships here, but we Trans Widows must just suck it up, make me furious too.

There are people suggesting that trans groups aren't the best people to provide education in schools about trans people though. You can understand the concern, I hope?

I understand the concern very well!

Guidance which includes confidential disclosure, for example - this facilitates the abuse of children who have secrets, which is why confidential disclosures are banned in safeguarding 101. Also guidance that excludes parents and multi-agency working for SEND children - this is actually illegal.

It's not that this guidance is coming from trans groups - it's that the guidance is both dangerous and very possibly illegal. If the trans groups could clear up these issues, their guidance might better received.

Snappily: a lot of people think feminists shouldn't talk about this to kids. Now that scares me.

There are people suggesting that trans groups aren't the best people to provide education in schools about trans people though. You can understand the concern, I hope?

Oh I definitely understand the concern. It would be unethical to provide factually and legally incorrect information to schools. Some groups do provide these packs - I assume you mean them?

It would be extremely unethical especially for a group who advocated for something like confidential disclosure to be involved in providing information packs to schools. Dont you agree?

Or do you see no conflict between a group advocating confidential disclosure and the uk child safeguarding framework..?

You can understand the concern, I hope?

We do, that's why we donated to the crowdfunder to support a more balanced education pack.

Well that was interesting. Just had a call from Amnesty about me cancelling my decades long support.

I told them it was because they chose Shon Faye to represent women and girls. And used a photo of SF dressed in bondage gear. They will be passing on my message.

"MN is invaluable because it’s anonymous."

I disagree. Mumsnet would be a much safer place if IDs were validated.

Absolutely no one on here has called for a clause 28 against transpeople. Nobody.

There are people suggesting that trans groups aren't the best people to provide education in schools about trans people though. You can understand the concern, I hope?

Seriously, find me a post on here where a GC feminist is attacking lesbians or asking for any kind of anything akin to clause 28. I would be incredibly surprised.

The long game behind self ID? Well who knows but stripping rights from women, safeguarding from children seems not terribly paranoid. My long game is preventing that from happening- preventing anything that strips rights and protections from women and children and minorities

There's a fuck of a lot of lesbians on FWR and in every gender critical organisation I know so it might be a little bit disingenuous to suggest that this is a hostile place for them.

One that will likely go beyond the self id law. so you do have another hidden agenda ? Hardly hidden. The agenda is to stop women's rights being eroded.

There is no need to eradicate/erode/belittle any groups rights at the expense of another. If TRAs want more rights let them argue for them... just not acquiesce to them taking/ changing the rights of women!

If that was to happen then I can almost guarantee that most feminist women would actively support them. I say almost as I am not as certain of this as I was a year ago - because the actions of aggressive TRA shouters have managed to change lots of minds, mine included.

And no, at no point did I mean transpeople in general, just the loud, aggressive activists who seem set on causing lots and lots of problems, problems that, as you rightly say, will go far far beyond Self ID. That's why we are shouting back!

Remember, women, as a class, did not start this. TRAs, as a class (often separate from trans people) started this and are continuing it, loudly, aggressively,!

Multiple posters have expressed that they are worried about the impact of trans ideology on lesbians and gay people because it’s so homophobic
Exactly, Bowlo

Foxy - where are the posts attacking lesbians? The one which prompted Gibb's reply wasn't an attack, it was pointing out the biological difference between women and men which is based on their reproductive organs, not saying that motherhood per se equals womanhood.

Datun This is long game. One that will likely go beyond the self id law. so you do have another hidden agenda ? Datun would this involve re introducing a Clause 28 type rule against us lesbians and gay men ?

Good grief absolutely no one has even said such a thing. I can’t let that go I’m afraid. Multiple posters have expressed that they are worried about the impact of trans ideology on lesbians and gay people because it’s so homophobic.

Absolutely no one on here has called for a clause 28 against transpeople. Nobody.

GibbertyFlibbert
As a woman in a relationship with another woman I hope children aren't seen as necessary to validate womanhood. I am sure you meant no offence but validation through motherhood is really quite a misogynist view and I wouldn't like to see it get traction.

Well said GibbertyFlibbert , some of these posters want to crush lesbians , gay men , along with all trans people

now they have started to attack us Lesbians already