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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Friend has very conflicting views about women, politics etc

81 replies

dragontwo · 12/06/2018 09:43

Came away feeling really depressed. A very old and dear friend has developed some political views that feel completely at odds with my own and I feel very conflicted.

I think I'm fairly left wing and a feminist (I'm not very well read about feminism but have educated myself a little through the boards here in recent times). Friend has always been traditionally similar in views to my own but has decided to "educate" himself about his views over the last few years by reading lots of right wing and more centrist materials which has changed many of his views. I find some of his views pretty offensive. Here are some examples:

  • feminism is now unnecessary as we already have equality laws - it leads to communism (bad) and is inherently "anti-male"
  • murder is more important to cover in the news (and socially a more important issue) than issues that affect everyone, such as the gender pay gap and equality or discrimination
  • the gender pay gap doesn't exist, women just choose to do lower paid jobs (the jordan peterson / cathy newman interview "proved" this).
  • he said that "the world is ruled by beautiful women who scorn men and look down their noses at them"
  • inequality in the home (and outside) doesn't exist - women choose to do more housework etc because of their biological nature. He disputed the idea of the "mental load" when I showed him the cartoon and said "we need to hear the guy's side of the story, it's probably the opposite"
  • the courts frequently rule in favour of the mother rather than the father as far as child contact goes as a result of institutional sexism against men rather than "doing what's best for the child"
  • people on benefits shouldn't have widescreen TVs (ok, not really relevant to women but it did annoy me!)
  • the fact that murders and DV happen more within families was more of a problem than the fact that they are usually male against women

Although I don't profess to know the full arguments for and against all the above, I did find many of his viewpoints quite upsetting and at times very offensive. However I'm not so good at arguing my point but I did try my best to educate him. But I don't think he went away feeling any different! I felt many of his views were quite misogynist and this upset me.

Does anyone have any advice? How would you cope with maintaning a friend whose viewpoints made you feel so uncomfortable, especially if they were a very old friend you really care about?

What do people think about some of his points? I would welcome any feedback / thoughts etc about if he is right on anything or where he is wrong!?

Sorry if this seems a bit ineducated on my part. I'm trying to find my voice and views and educate myself but I'm not so familiar with debating the subject so would welcome more experienced feminist viewpoints.

Many thanks

OP posts:
dragontwo · 12/06/2018 10:12

I think I am also feeling more vulnerable and confused as several other men in my life have also gone through a similar thinking shift and I find their views very intolerant and at odds with mine, all at once! Some more extreme than others but offensive to me either way.

It's a bit shocking and disorientating to be honest.

OP posts:
dragontwo · 12/06/2018 10:09

thanks people. I feel very upset as we're such old friends (20 years!) and outside of his political views (that I have only very recently found out about) he is a caring, funny guy.

He's also very convinced that his views are fair, equal etc. He seems to cherrypick facts to suit his arguments - but implied I was doing the same thing (I may have been - not sure!). He did make me doubt myself a bit on some points, probably because I am not very well read or an experienced debater, so I thought I would post here to find out others feelings.

OP posts:
Serfisafleur · 12/06/2018 10:03

These sorts of political views don't come around suddenly, after reading or watching a few things.
People look into things that confirm their life view. It's OK to not like someone based on their political opinions. Especially if they're awful!

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 12/06/2018 09:56

You'll have to chuck it in. Shame. Mind you, not quite as extreme as my old uni friend who'd turned into a white supremacist and now collected Nazi memorabilia. Grin

TERFragetteCity · 12/06/2018 09:51

Why would you want to be friends with a man like this?

UpstartCrow · 12/06/2018 09:48

I've been in the same position and don't think you can maintain this friendship, as it will now become a power struggle between your views and his.
He has deliberately and actively chosen to ignore facts in favour of a right wing narrative.

In the UK, round 10 women a week are murdered or commit suicide as the direct result of men's violence towards them. As far as he is concerned they don't exist; we are equal, we choose our destiny.

Like many pseudo left wing men, he is actually authoritarian. He wants to believe its his birthright. Its impossible to maintain an equal relationship with a person who thinks like that.

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