Friend has very conflicting views about women, politics etc

@DustyMaiden the other perspective being seeing yourself as a second class citizen biologically suited to cleaning?

offred
But I suppose different people draw their circle of compatability quite small and think their worldview is right so anything outside the fringes of that must be a sign of having incompatible values

Some of us have broader circles. E.g.My lines are sexism, racism, disablism, homophobia, religious intolerance. That tells me about them as a person.
Political views can shift and change.

E.g. One of my friends and I have staunchly different views on the welfare state and Brexit now. I could say 'you believe in shrinking the welfare state and are pro brexit so you must be a hideous racists who hates poor people' so we can't be friends. Or I can say we have different views, they are their own person and I'm not threatened by someone having different views.

None of my friends are misogynists thank goodness, but some (more family type friends really) have shared some quite racist views with me. Where discussion hasn't helped I have just stated that I find their views unpleasant and offensive and don't want to hear them. We've either ceased to be friends or they have accepted our difference in opinions and ceased to talk about anything relating to that topic. Difficult to maintain friendship when they are basically telling you they think little of you and people like you.

I think the people in my life like this are family, so a compromise needs to be found.

Offred you make a good point about the fact that this is a friendship. Sexists ultimately don't have a high opinion of women, is that the basis for a friendship?

People have different ideas about what ‘friend’ means for a start. Some people call 100s of people friends when others would see them as acquaintances. Some people understand ‘stopping being friends’ as ‘never see them again’ others think of it as ‘changing how I see this person’....

If each of us retreated into our own little echo chambers and only heard opposing views from strangers on the internet, politics would become even more tribal and divisive than it already is.

You don’t have to be friends with someone who has opposing views you know? Not wanting to be friends with someone because they have values you feel are incompatible with friendship isn’t the same as never speaking to anyone who disagrees with you.

Can someone summarise the Jordan Peterson Cathy Newman interview. I don’t think I can stand to watch or read the comments. Was it a gift to the MRAs?

Should be and say

I think it’s a good thing to have discussions with people with different views, you may both think about things from a different perspective.

You could alternatively use a method often used by posters on this board and fuck off you are thick as shit.

I think we should maintain friendships with people who have different views. He is sexist, like racism call him on it or just ask him not to be sexist when you are together, agree to differ. He has the right to have old fashioned sexist views, you have the right not to listen to them.

Him taking more right wing views wouldn't be so much of an issue to me (to a point, BNP/EDL views would be an issue). I do think it's healthy to keep friendships with a range of views and find people who keep themselves in echo chambers tend to end up being more extreme in their own sense of being right

That said, the idea that women do more housework... because... biology is more like deeply ingrained sexism and I think that would probably be the start of a friendship drifting.

I had a friend who was fairly central ans middle of the road feminist. They met a misogynist and over time started being quite condescending to anyone who believed in equalities agenda claiming it's all gone too far and men are the real victims. Every conversation came back to them laughing at different points of view. We aren't friends now.

Advise him to read The Macho Paradox (Why some men hurt women and how all men can help) by Jackson Katz.

And detach.

It baffles me that you cannot maintain a friendship with someone with different views.

If each of us retreated into our own little echo chambers and only heard opposing views from strangers on the internet, politics would become even more tribal and divisive than it already is.

If murder is more important in the news than gender issues, youncouldmpointmout to him every time a woman is murdered. Two or three reminders each week of another woman being killed by a man may get the point across.

I agree with @diddlemethis. He doesn't sound like much of a friend if he considers all woes to be self inflicted.

I prefer to define my friends as those who have a similar moral view as mine. That's not the same as identical political views, or a desire to live in an echo chamber.

If you were to fall, would this guy help pick you up? Or would he think you were failing somehow. If you or your family were to need benefits would he judge you? If you had to fight a sex discrimination case, would he be supportive?

Just downgrade this fellow from "friend" to "someone you know".

women choose to do more housework etc because of their biological nature.

This goes beyond “we have different views on politics.” I’m friends with plenty of people who are way across the political spectrum to me, but I’d find it very very hard to be good friends with someone spouting that kind of sexism.

"people on benefits shouldn't have widescreen TVs"

Don't ask me why I've chosen to pick on this point but somehow it tickled me.

Exactly how big a tv should people be allowed to have when they're on benefits? Are flatscreens ok or should they try to track down an old-school big box type?

What about if you already have a big fancy tv and then lose your job and are on benefits for a while? Should you trade down or is it ok then?

What kind of aspect ratio is acceptable if you're on benefits? Is it a sliding scale (eg child allowance only, you can have 16:9, but universal credit recipients must have 4:3 or risk being sanctioned).

As for the rest, I'm really sorry OP but I wouldn't waste your time. Nothing you say or do is ever going to convince him, just like I bet he hasn't been able to convince you either. It's time to cut him loose.

I wouldn't have a problem with that friendship in the slightest.

I like having friends with totally opposite views to my own - it makes for interesting debates and conversations. How boring the world would be if we were all the same.

I am rather right wing politically, not at all a feminist, but still manage to maintain friendships.

I value you my friends on a lot more than their political views.

Thankfully.

Oh and poverty is a choice apparently too...

Ah you are one of those people who think pay is proportional to effort... Lots of you about, not many of you on this board...

Well it is true that the gender pay gap doesn't exist in the way that the words pay gap suggest. Women don't get paid less, they are in lower paid work. This is actually more prevalent in countries that rank higher in gender equality measures. The problem isn't that wen are being paid less than men. The problem is that they are choosing less lucrative work in greater numbers. Going on about the alleged pay gap just covers up the real problem. Women aren't making the effort to earn the same as men. Some of this can be explained by socialisation, some of it by women being the ones who go part time to care for children etc. But it isn't going to be resolved until people actually start talking about it.

Femenism is probably less necessary than it has ever been but I would disagree that it is unexessary as discussed above women aren't performing as well as men in the economy. This has an impact on their relative power within the household etc. As long as women continue to be less powerful than their male counterparts Femenism in some form is necessary.

As for inequality in the home women choose to do more work because their husband's are hopeless not because they want to clean and cook ffs. Mental load, well clearly he has never had one so doesn't know.

Communism is bad but I don't see how Femenism causes it.

Would have to agree with him that if you are forcing the tax payer to pay for your lifestyle you should have decency to live frugally and save any spare cash for improving employment chances not entertainment.

He just seems to have a fairly standard disperse meant of views influenced by an ignorance of how family courts work and generally what life as a wan is like with a little smattering of the batshot crazy (feminism causes communism and beautiful women are apparently on the cusp of world domination). I don't really see why you care. You don't have to be polite. When he says something stupid just say so and mive on. Or better stop talking to him.

I don’t think it is all outside influences either btw. There is an inter relationship between the two things.

Weeeelllll I don’t quite agree that these sorts of views don’t come about because of outside influences....

OP have you seen this doc en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Brainwashing_of_My_Dad?

Yes, the cloak does fall off the older these men get...it is a shock but you have to realign your friendships to suit you as these scales drop from your eyes.